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Author Topic: P35GPS Dowser Question
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-10-2002 11:19 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the Vic10 I have connected a guardian solinoid to the yellow handle that sticks out the operating side

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Manuel Francisco Valencia
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-11-2002 01:02 AM      Profile for Manuel Francisco Valencia   Email Manuel Francisco Valencia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I will rewire the xenon. From what it sounds like it I can't go wrong, unless of course I get the wires mixed up. Just out of curiousity Joe and Brad have you removed all of that other crap that goes with the dowser like the solenoid and such. And I take it that it is doUser and not doWser. Funny. I have seen it spelled both ways and thought the w was correct.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-11-2002 01:54 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is doUser because is "douses" the light when closed. I would take out the douser plate itself, which is easy to do, especially if you have been doing it again and again hammering them back flat. But of course you don't HAVE to remove anything. Just make sure it's not going to fall in front of the light source.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-11-2002 04:19 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, if you want to try it for a week or two to make sure you are happy with the setup, don't do anything but wrap a short piece of Artist's tape (3 inches or so) around the base of the douser shaft on the exterior of the projector while the douser is fully open. That will prevent it from falling and if you decide you don't like this option for some reason, all you will have to do is remove the tape and move those two wires back.

Two things though...

#1 What kind of automation and equipment package is this?

#2 DO make sure you have your tech's permission before you do anything and be sure to label the two wires that you move (as well as anything else applicable) so if a new tech has to come in and do an emergency service call he will know what is going on.

If you have the standard (and current) Christie package which I think you do, on the backside of the lamphouse there will be a terminal board. You will want to move the wire on terminal #6 (this may be labeled #6b) to terminal #13. Then you will want to move the wire on terminal #7 to terminal #12.

The above paragraph will do the trick if you plan on removing the douser plates themselves, however if you want to leave them in, you will need to remove the wire going into terminal #8 and cap it off (and label it) with a wire nut or electrical tape. That wire will carry 110v through it once you power the system back up, so it can NOT be allowed to come into contact with anything. That will prevent power from getting to the douser and burning it up.

Make sure you have the power off when you do this. That's all there is to it on that kind of setup, but do post specifically what equipment you have so the terminations can be verified just to make double sure...and I'll say it again, make sure you have permission.


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Manuel Francisco Valencia
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-11-2002 04:18 PM      Profile for Manuel Francisco Valencia   Email Manuel Francisco Valencia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have Christie 3Q. Getting permission is the only thing that probably won't happen but then again I wouldn't want my tech to worry.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-11-2002 04:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's see here...3Q automation has a different breakout schedule and you are out of luck. There is no provision for an exciter on the 3Q automation...so you can't do it without what somewhat major modifications, which I wouldn't recommend.

At this point your easiest option is to order the new Christie douser plates that have the circular indention in them. They won't melt like the older ones do. Alternatively, you could retrofit a Kelmar douser on there like is being discussed in another thread.

Christie's part number for the new douser plates is 119263-002.

Here is a picture of the BAD douser plate and what eventually happens to it...


Here is a picture of the new GOOD douser plate...


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German Marin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 227
From: Verbania (VB), Italy
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 09-13-2002 06:04 PM      Profile for German Marin   Email German Marin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kelmar Douser is a problem to place it over the P35GPS and we need to lift above the aperture drive assembly but is needed a base to be placed under the douser (base).

The original and the modificated douser base. The two holes (arrow) for cone screws to fix it to the new base we've done.

To move the douser base is needed to drill the douser assembly (arrow) it need a screw an a nut with its respective washes.

The final position of the base with its screws to be fixed over the new base.

The new Base.

I'll take the pictures on the booth with the full system completed the next tuesday, now I'm finishing the 11 dousers at the workshop (7 for El Recreo and 4 for Lagunita).

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-13-2002 06:13 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Question on terminology: I always thought that the "douser" was the thick metal plate that is part of a lamphouse and is controlled by a manually operated handle and that the "changeover" was the relatively small metal plate inside the projector that is operated electrically. Is my understanding horribly misguided here?


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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-13-2002 06:47 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, I agree. I've always thought that the (manual) douser was the one you left closed with the lamp burning trying to figure out where the heck the motor cue is. The other I've always known as the changeover shutter.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-13-2002 07:12 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, you are correct, but it cannot be called a "changeover" unless that's what it actually does, and in most theaters it just "douses". Usually I use the term "hand douser" for the big metal one attached to the lamphouse that you move open and closed yourself. The "changeover" is usually referred to as the "electric douser", but in most places it is just shortened to "douser".


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-13-2002 07:51 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The manufacturers of both projectors and the devices in question continue to refer to them as changeovers and surely they know as well as anyone that most go to single machine booths. It doesn't make sense to have two terms for the same thing and changeover has a good three-quarters of a century precendence. Booth beginners will find both changeover and douser to be alien terms requiring explanation so there's really little incentive to call it a douser especially when that term then has to be modified with "hand" or "electric."

Besides, the MANUALS section calls them changeovers and surely you're not going to contradict Brad!


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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-13-2002 08:02 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
And there's that bizarre humor of yours again Steve that just fails to actually be funny.

I have changed the wording on the manuals page so you won't lose any more sleep over such a ridiculously nitpicky thing. Oh wait, that was just about as funny as your comment above. Wow, I'm so funny.



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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-13-2002 08:11 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So if we follow Joe's naming convention, the exact same part should have two different names, depending upon the booth environment in which it is installed, correct? That seems a bit confusing for those of us who work in several different booths (some platter, some changeover, one with two machines plus platter). And, anyway, the name plate still says "Zipper Electric Changeover"...

For completeness, I'd be curious to know others' thoughts on how to refer to this part on machines which combine the functions of several different parts into one. For example, Kinoton projectors and Eiki 16mm machines don't have a separate hand douser--the changeover/electric douser is simply used for both functions and is beefier than a changeover/electric douser in a Century/Simplex type machine. On Cinemeccanica V5s, the changeover/electric douser also serves as a fire shutter (metal blade which drops down when projector RPM goes below a certain point). I'm sure that there are other examples of this as well. (Actually, Kinotons don't really need a hand douser, since the lamp only strikes when the motor is running, which is either a "feature" or a "design flaw" depending on one's point of view....)


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-13-2002 09:15 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The hand/electric, changeover and fire are all dousers or dowsers. And I preceed all of them with their proper names. Using the term changeover in relation to a particular douser congers up a particular vision of an item and where it is located in the light path.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-13-2002 10:58 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You changed the wording just to contradict a point I made as a joke? That's downright bizarre. It also means the category is now named differently than the manuals within. Or maybe you'd like to rewrite those too. Hey, whatever floats your boat.


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