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Author Topic: Will a well-made splice be visible onscreen? Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-04-2003 12:00 PM                     quote: "Also I have yet to find two of those neumade pieces of junk sawtoothed specials that actually can produce interchangeable cuts between them" While I always enjoy reading about IMAX Gordon, we are talking about regular 35mm film projection here in typical theaters, not that criss-cross 70mm splicer that Neumade makes. (This was what you were referring to, right?) And Mark, I think you are right! Next time I am in Canada I will try and make a splice on a CIR. Maybe it has something to do with the magnetism of the north pole.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 01:04 PM                     Actually Mark brought up the 15/70 splicer issue with the narrow tape and I just gave my opinion of that pile of  |  IP: Logged Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 02:03 PM                     David, In reply to your original question, I can virtually always see tape splices. Most of the time there is a slight jump (at least), and even if the splice goes through smoothly, the tape edges are visible onscreen as more-or-less horizontal black lines. The tape edges become even more visible as they pick up dirt and dust (especially when run through a dry media cleaner loaded with dirt), but I actually see the edges from the first pass, even with clean tape. This leads me to think that the edges cause some sort of refraction of the light (which is, after all, why black scratches are black). I've never worked with a splicer that was well aligned enough to consistently produce totally jump-free splices. It is also possible with Rivas (?) splicers used in postproduction, which utilize preperforated tape, although workprints usually seem the worst as far as jumpy splices. Inviso splices are just splices made with preperforated tape that extend halfway over either perforation immediately adjacent to the splice. They are completely invisible in 1.85, but not necessarily in 2.39. And, they can still jump, although preperforated tape splices require quite a bit of skill as you're aligning the perfs in the tape with the perfs in the film. Still, there are exceptions. I have seen totally invisible splices made with the different kinds of splicers. One that comes to mind is an edit I had to make in "Gladiator" due to a brain wrap. It helped that it was a dark scene, but not only could I not detect a splice, I could not detect a jump in the continuity due to the missing footage! The only telltale sign was a few emulsion scratches around that point.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 01-04-2003 02:56 PM                        Thanks for the explanations.  |  IP: Logged William Leland III Master Film Handler Posts: 336 From: Charleston, SC, Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-04-2003 03:12 PM                        While watching IMAX prints, I have never seen reel changes or trailors splices. The reason being the splices are at the edge of the screen. The film moves right to left not vertical like 35mm. The spices go across the screen but I have never seen it. Our reel changes have no little dots in the upper corners. Also our splicer cuts frames with a jagge edge, not a staight edge like 35 splicers. Maybe that is the difference in seening the reel changes.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 04:17 PM                     The splices may be a the sides of the screeb but they can be very obvious especially on a dark scene unless you bloop them out  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 04:20 PM                     Brad said...."Maybe it has something to do with the magnetism of the north pole." I think you're right Brad....thats why I found Gord waving it in and out in front of the heads on the Imax dubbers there one day. Its also a useful de-magnitizer....Definately MUST have something to do with the promiximity of the North Pole.... Also for some reason CP-500's sound harsh up there while CP-650's sound great. Just the opposite down here where magnetism must be at a constant or something..... Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 04:25 PM                     Yah mark and the panastereo's sound the best since you heard them first up here Also it is the home of the first JJ's as well.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-04-2003 06:27 PM                     Brad, at CinemaWorld we had Kinoton PK-60D's, and they did not have velvet gate bands. It must be an option. Why would an 8-perf splice cause Dolby Digital to drop out? I, too, would definitely prefer an 8-perf splice since the edge of the tape would not be visible in the frame.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-04-2003 06:36 PM                     Thanks Ken. I didn't ever remember seeing velvet bands on the Kinoton projectors I have been so impressed with. Now I know I'm not losing my mind. (Well, at least not on THAT issue.) 8 perf splices will cause the SRD track to go "out of focus" because of the thickness of the splicing tape. When the reader is calibrated, it is on film sitting flat on the drum. When a splice comes through (talking about the base side splicing tape here), that pushes the film closer to the lens and farther away from the drum, resulting in the digital bits of data leaving that sweet spot of focus. Just like when a picture is out of focus you can't see the detail, when the digital camera cannot sharply focus on the individual bits of data, it defaults to "guessing" with some form of digital concealment until which point it just drops to analog. Steve reports that an 8 perf splice will knock the digital out and a fallback to analog will result. I seem to recall specifically faking an 8 perf splice with 2 layers side by side of opaque tape and not having any dropout. I guess I'll have to sit down one day and repeat the experiment. Anyway, that's the theory at least.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 07:59 PM                        Kinoton FP-30s (at least the mechanical "D" version) don't have the velvet bands, either. The gates are made of Delrin and need to be replaced periodically. Brad--I think you would like the FP-30. With the exception of the changeover and the takeup clutch (both of which have been improved, according to Steve G.) and the silly motor switch which also operates the xenon lamp, they are very nice machines and the on-screen image is at least as bright and steady as any that I have seen.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2003 08:13 PM                     Velvet gate bands for the FP20 FP30 and PK60's are available if one chooses to order them and are very common up here with many uses of the FP20 in particular  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-06-2003 07:46 AM                        SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 111 specifies dimensions for splices: SMPTE Standards  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-06-2003 08:07 AM                     Scott, The take up clutch issue you mentioned has been an option for decades...It is called "accelerated frictions" in the options category. And Mark, I prefer the sound of the CP-650 over the CP-500. I even prefer the CP-650's digital emulation of SR to the standard CP-500's Cat. 222SR/A card. Just my opinion (which everyone is entitled to). Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 01-06-2003 04:33 PM                     At my cinema we prefer overlap splices. I'm a second run cinema. I peel tape off the splices and encourage my trainees to also do so. If I end up with butt splices, then I run them.  |  IP: Logged

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