Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Will a well-made splice be visible onscreen?

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Will a well-made splice be visible onscreen? (Page 4)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Author

Topic: Will a well-made splice be visible onscreen?

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-15-2003 08:15 PM

I can't say on other brand however seems impossibile to me that an overlapped splice does not jump... Despite how good is the gate seems physic to me...

However, I can't say more!

bye
A

| IP: Logged

William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-17-2003 12:45 AM

quote:
Industrial strength sharpies work pretty well also. You just have to let it dry before winding becasue it will com off of the splice,or maybe make it under the tape, I never tried that.

And John Pytlak spake, saying:

quote:
Blooping ink or India ink was often used for blooping soundtracks containing silver, as the carbon particles absorb both visible and infrared light. These inks should be just as effective on cyan dye tracks.

Dye-based markers usually absorb little infrared, and so would not effectively bloop a track played on a tungsten exciter lamp reader. But as long as they are opaque to red light, they would be effective on a cyan dye track read with a red light reader.

Sharpies are variable in results, & not as fast as an india ink pen. I get them at a local large arts/crafts store & an arts supply store. Steve Kraus mentioned that he uses little triangles of black plastic electrical tape under the splicing tape. I've seen those on a couple of prints, & wondered if Steve Was Here. I've also seen bizarre Sharpie & felt tip swipes & blobs which couldn't bloop, & wondered who did those.

| IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-19-2003 01:31 AM

If you put the effort into blooping the analog track at a mid-reel splice, use proper blooping ink or opaque tape that will be effective for both red LED and white light readers. Using a dye-based marker will be ineffective for a white light reader.

| IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-19-2003 07:24 AM

Can someone tell me exaclty what is the "blooping ink"? I searched but I didn't found any detailed description, on jack-roe web there is no photos or anything else.
I used once a black permanent ink but I found that the black line I made to cover the space on the soundtrack was transfered many times on other part of the print (I saw the splice and then a black line, and another brighter black line... and another brighter black line...!!)

Thanks

A

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-19-2003 10:04 AM

Antonio,

When you bloop, you should do so under the splicing tape. That prevents your ink from wearing. You can also bloop on both sides, but this is more technically difficult.

In page 2 of To Bloop or Not To Bloop, I recommended Mark-tex filmopaquer pens, and Bernard Tonks recommended the Pentel N50.

As for ink, if you want to use your own pen, John Pytlak has repeatedly recommended "India ink," which I always assumed would be available wherever fountain pen supplies are sold.

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-19-2003 10:22 AM

John,

This is my problem: what means bloop? What is a blooping pen? [Smile]

How can I bloop a splice?

Bye!

Antonio

| IP: Logged

Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 11-19-2003 10:52 AM

Blooping ink is an ink that will block infra-red light -- like metallic ink.

Blooping is 'covering up' or 'writing on' the soundtrack (with a blooping ink) anywhere that might cause a pop in the sound system -- such as lab splices.

| IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-19-2003 10:55 AM

uhm... but how can I block light that passes though a splice with ink? I mean, I used ink on some soundtrack "error" (not covered "blip" on analogue soundtrack or lab splices) but how can I cover a space between two parts of prints with simple ink?

Thanks!

Bye
A

| IP: Logged

Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 11-19-2003 11:27 AM

If you've got a small gap that you want to fill without chopping off another frame, you can tape one side of the splice, flip the film over and use the blooping ink on the sticky side of the splicing tape (where the gap is), then put the other piece of tape on.

| IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-19-2003 12:22 PM

Hmm...has anyone ever considered making splicing tape with pre-printed triangle marks on it to bloop the soundtrack? I'm thinking of something like zebra tape, except with those triangle or diamond shapes printed with some sort of ink that blocks infra-red energy.

| IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-19-2003 12:27 PM

Ah, it is more clear to me now!! I should paint the tape and not the print! [Smile]

Thanks!

Bye
A

| IP: Logged

Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-19-2003 05:28 PM

Scott the problem with any pre printed tape is getting it correctly located when applied.

You have to consider that the SRD track is very close, DTS being MUCH MORE forgiving, and it would be too easy to obscure it and cause a revesion. After all SRD drops out at the slightest glitch as it is.

There have been many different types of splice tape pre printed for good visability when breaking down prints etc. But they have mostly been forgotten with the introduction of digital sound tracks, SRD and SDDS, which are in exactly the place these tapes were high lighted. There was also the problem that when applied poorly they were visablee on the right of the screen.

Personally I use the yellow edge marking tape which, if applied correctly, does not cover the SRD track. If I had my way I'd run sound track down so the SRD track was even less disturbed.

At the end of the day all of these things are fine 'IF' applied correctly 100% of the time. But as we all know we cannot be on duty 24/7 and have to rely on other's to do the job correctly as they were trained. This unfortunatly is seldom the case.

What is needed is the distributor to come up with a difinative guide as to how to make splices and mark prints. That way everybody would be singing from the same hymne book..... or would they!

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-19-2003 05:31 PM

quote:
Personally I use the yellow edge marking tape which, if applied correctly, does not cover the SRD track. If I had my way I'd run sound track down so the SRD track was even less disturbed.

I am adamantly against running soundtrack down as a daily routine for the benefit of the print, but Ken is there any reason why you cannot put your edge marking tape on the picture side and just takeup soundtrack down for that final performance? (That edgemarking tape IS your problem with the SRD dropouts.)

Personally I think the whole marking tape thing is ridiculous. All my booths have ever used was clear tape and for the last several years we have enjoyed ultrasonic splices. Even the biggest idiots I have had working for me could break down an ultrasonically spliced print with ease. When breaking down a print, the projectionist should be feeling the edges of the film for a splice, not looking for the splice.

| IP: Logged

David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 11-25-2003 03:23 PM

Greeting All from Cambridge

Many years ago, when I was asked to set up this department, one of the first tasks that my research group undertook was that of investigating the best type of join to make for cinema applications, the results of which were published*ref1.

To recap the general gist of this paper, we found that to ensure a visually clean transition from reel to reel that the best performing tape was 9mm in width with a butt join. However, since this was in the days of analogue sound, that this created a rather annoying 'pop' on the audio track. (For this venture, tests were undertaken at the Empire Theatre Leicester Square, London England).

However, it was noted that this did not apply to 70mm magnetic presentations, of which there were many at the time, and the momentary interruption in audio was practically unnoticable to the general public. Even using this narrow gauge tape, there were no issues with join integrity. This method was not evaluated with film fed from a platter.

In latter years similar experiments were carried out with SRD tracks and this method of joining film proved superior to any other with respect to reversions at reel changes.

The conclusion at which I and my team have arrived is that a slight overlap (less than 1/10th of a DD data block) will not cause a reversion in SRD when 9mm tape is used.

From Cambridge, good evening, and if you have been I thank you.

*ref1 . Acta Cinematografia, V.3 pp 21-24, 1982

| IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 11-25-2003 09:20 PM

Did we ever really establish whether or not Dolby Digital reads accurately through clear tape? Hmmm...if I run tape down several feet of film (perforating on a splicer) will it read or revert?

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.