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Author Topic: DTS To Discontinue Support of DTS 6 Units In One Year Phil Radosevich Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Centerville, IA, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 06-12-2003 07:27 AM                     I'm I getting this right? Is DTS discontinuing all of the "6" line including the d or just the older style  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-12-2003 08:27 AM                     Phil, Just the older two drawer unit. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-12-2003 09:49 AM                     Regarding posting the AUD files online, If one really wanted to, just set them up on an FTP server or what have you with a password for access. If the "copyright police" tell you to shut it down, just move it or change it's name and it will take them another couple months to find it. Or just re-name the files to something completely different and provide a text file translation to those who require it. Honestly, if Workprint copies of The Hulk are ALREADY circulating around the internet, the studios REALLY need to sit down and re-assess where these copyright violations are coming from. Thing is, it's probably easier to bust some schmoe with a videocam in a theater or someone trading DTS-AUD files which are of no use to anyone else than it is for the studios to go after "their own" who are making copies of workprints, screeners and telecine transfers. Bass-ackwards!!! =TMP= EDIT: Graemlins added. [ 06-13-2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Thomas Procyk ]  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-12-2003 01:38 PM                        We will cease servicing the DTS-6 (2-drive) player bu the end of this year. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Jonathan M. Crist Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 531 From: Hershey, PA, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-12-2003 03:16 PM                     Quite Frankly it seems like awful short notice to me. I bought a used 2 drawer unit just last year. If I had been told this by the Dealer from whom I purchased (or had any indication this was coming) I certainly would have bought something else. Once again "Buyer Beware"  |  IP: Logged Tom Kroening Expert Film Handler Posts: 214 From: Janesville, WI USA Registered: Oct 1999 posted 06-12-2003 06:53 PM                     You'd think you would have known that the unit would not be supported very long because it came out 10 years ago and is not sold as new today! I'm sure your unit will be fine for years to come and if its not you won't have trouble finding parts from other used equipment. As far as using a PC for DTS decoding its an interesting idea but I don't think it would ever come into play. If it did it would still have to have proprietary DTS hardware and OS to run on because of viruses and pirates. Not to mention that cheap PC's aren't made to last 10 years running all day long every day in a hot projection room. $6,000 after trade isn't really that much for a theatre to spend, especially when equipment money is budgeted and saved like it probably should be. Now, $6,000 x 20 decoders gets a bit pricey, maybe there should be a trade-as-it-breaks program for larger theatres.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan M. Crist Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 531 From: Hershey, PA, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-12-2003 10:40 PM                     Since I am not computer "savy" (for lack of a better phrase) it simply did not even occur to me that the equipment would be considered outmoded in such a short period of time. Especially that when you consider that in my 35 years in this business, I have seen properly cared for equipment last for decades. (Heck even my Dolby CP-55 is 15 years old and - although upgraded - parts are readily available). Perhaps if the announcement had not occurred at the same time as the marketing push for the their new 'whiz-bang' gaget, I would not be so suspicious.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-12-2003 10:49 PM                        Well, DTS has been putting out new "gagets" all along. Quite frankly I'm surprised they supported the oldie as long as they have. The new XD10 seems like a great product, in fact film-techers "guessed" the basic idea (hard-drive based system) a good year or more before it was announced. I'm already working on rearranging the budget so I can afford one.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-12-2003 10:49 PM                        Well, Jonathan, if the computer world hadn`t developed so dynamically, we wouldn`t be here on this website looking at multicolored chat boxes with peoples`pictures, downloading hi-res scanned manuals or videos and many other things!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-12-2003 11:52 PM                     John, 10 years for anything electronic is quite good...20 is even better and a good reason to buy an analog processor as the heart of any theatre sound system. Also, parts are not as available for your CP-55 as you might think. We have gobs of them in this neck of the woods, and unfortunately Dolby has never been very hip about supporting their older units. There are certain modules for the CP-55 that are VERY scarce and even Dolby may only have one or two on the shelf at a given time...... Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Oscar Neundorfer Master Film Handler Posts: 275 From: Senoia, GA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-13-2003 07:08 AM                        Mark said: "10 years for anything electronic is quite good...20 is even better..." One problem I have seen consistently is that component parts manufacturers (some much worse than others) discontinue parts such as IC's at an alarming rate. Now I understand their business decisions, but if they have convinced me to use a proprietary part in one of my designs, and then discontinue said part a short time later, I am screwed. I have to go back and re-design to get around that problem. In one case, a DSP micro processor that was at the heart of one design was discontinued in only one year from its introduction. I would love to see parts vendors keep parts in their line for a few years so that Mark's 10 to 20 years scenario can play out as it should. So far, SMART will service anything it has ever made as long as parts can be obtained. But I must tell you that it is getting really hard to justify keeping something alive that we made 25, or even 15, years ago. On a few occasions, I have thought about discontinuing support for some of our older products which should have long since been retired, but my customers would have a fit if they called and we told them no support is available. This kind of thing is truly a tough call, and DTS has apparently had the resolve to make that hard decision. For this, I applaud them.  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-13-2003 07:28 PM                        Some of the parts used in the DTS-6 (2-drive) player are obsolete and are no longer available in the marketplace. Many of these parts have no direct replacement. It is for that reason that we can no longer service these units. I'll still be around to answer questions on the unit. I promise not to hang up when you mention the DTS-6. I'll still send you wiring diagrams, I promise. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-13-2003 10:18 PM                     quote: "I would love to see parts vendors keep parts in their line for a few years so that Mark's 10 to 20 years scenario can play out as it should." _________________________________________________________________ Oscar, What I meant was that by purchasing an all analog processor such as a CP-65. Panastereo, Mod 2 or that sort of thing is that the 10 to 20 year scenerio would be alot easier to play out. The analog chips used in those processors will be around for many, many years to come, with the likelyhood of better replacements if they do become obsolete. This parts availability is one of analog equipments best features, other than the fact it almost always sounds better too. Indeed anything with any "digital", or "DSP" stuff inside it has far less liklyhood of surviving that time frame....and to me, hanging the film sound digital processor outboard is a far better idea than integrating it into a unit....such as Sony, or Dolby has done.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-14-2003 08:44 AM                     I can't concur with Mark's response on the CP-55... Looking at the unit and its modules... The Cat. 240 preamp can be replaced with the Cat. 240A The Cat. 222 can be replaced with either the Cat. 222A or the Cat. 222"SR/A" (current module in the CP-45, a current product). The Cat. 150C can be replaced with the Cat 150E (used in a current product the SDU4) or the Cat 150F The Cat. 64s are certainly repair exchangeable or replaced and ultimately repaired (nothing high-tech there). The Cat 242 is obtainable new or RX. The Cat. 241 can be upgraded to the Cat 441, which makes the unit ready for digital. The Cat 243 can be replaced with the Cat 443 and I believe the Cat.243 is still on the RX list in any event (don't know of any single-source devices on it to prevent repair). The Cat 249 can be upgraded to the Cat 249A with better regulation and filtration I believe even the Cat 250 (transformers/fuses and bypass switch) can be upgraded to the Cat. 250A. So, on a module by module basis, the CP-55 is WELL supported. Not that one would want to replace everything at once but if something fails in a CP-55, the owner of that unit is not faced with spending several thousands of dollars to get it up and running again...hundreds, yes, but not thousands. In fact, even the CP-50 is rather well supported and it has been out of production for nearly 20-years with most everything in it designed in the '70s. Now back to the DTS-6... In this (movie exhibition) industry, it is expected that equipment last forever...a realistic expectation or not. I suspect that a 10-year service life will not sit well with exhibitors for ANY piece of projection equipment...it isn't what they are used to. With chains, they won't be looking at the potential cost of replacing one unit but hundreds to thousands...each carrying how much cost? I am curious as to just what has become so obsolete in the DTS-6 (that isn't obsolete in the 6D) that would signal the abandonment of the unit (at least that is how it seems to be presented). For instance, the CD-ROM issue (CD-ROMS have become passe) would affect both. So, if one has a CD-ROM failure (yes it can happen ) why wouldn't the fix for one also fix the other? How different are the time-code boards (aside from the round leds versus the rectangular ones)? I have had one Time-Code board go hooey on me, a couple of power supplies and my share of CD-ROM failures...the time code board had bad lip-sync switches (it would change lip-sync mid show!!). Looking at that sort of service record in 10-years...it seems pretty damn reliable to me. The DTS-6 was built VERY well, not just componentry but the actual assembly was well done. So, on the DTS-6, can the drives still be supported along with the 6D? Likewise with the power supplies? Other than that what else have you all had fail on you? Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-14-2003 09:37 AM                     Quote: "So, on a module by module basis, the CP-55 is WELL supported." "In fact, even the CP-50 is rather well supported and it has been out of production for nearly 20-years with most everything in it designed in the '70s." "I am curious as to just what has become so obsolete in the DTS-6 (that isn't obsolete in the 6D) that would signal the abandonment of the unit (at least that is how it seems to be presented)." _________________________________________________________________ Try to get a backplane or the front panel switch card sometime.... Dolby may or may not have a refurbished one in stock.....Definately no new stock on these, unless that has changed in the last year or so. I have run into problems getting both of these although they eventually came through. I wouldn't hesitate to sell a 55 today as you are correct about the najority of the cards. The CP-50 is probably the BEST example out there of why to install an all analog processor!! A good portion of the 5000 plus units built are still out there working someplace or other, usually with a DTS on them. On the DTS the problem is availablity of older AT style ISA type interface hardware. Same goes for the Large Format 8 chan. P-8 players. When they die thats pretty much it for them, but there is the 6d-SV which somewhat plugs right in place along with an E-175 TC converter. There is no one at DTS any longer that even knows the P-8! The 6D's, I believe but have to verify, have been changed to using ATX style hardware in them, identifiable by the rocker switch on the rear of the power supply by the AC conector. It may also be possible to convert an existing 6D that has an AT board and power supply over to ATX......however, these things I'd have to verify, or perhaps Karen could comment as to how thay will support the thousands of 6D's with AT hardware in them...... IN regards to DTS failures in my area of service......I have lost and still loose alot of 6 and 6D power supplies. Mainly what happens is that dust is sucked in the fan bearings, the fan seizes up and then stops. All the while the power supply is still going but running at temperatures thata re way too hot and eventually it will fail. I've had units whose power supply boards were charcoal black! Other than power supplies, I still see an occasional switching power supply failure on the audio board in 6D's, and have had to replace two mother boards, one of which was form a unit that had been in a fire..........That unit also needed much other internal work but is still working fine with its scorched black rear panel! Mark Mark  |  IP: Logged

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