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Author Topic: Beware of dts problems with "The Hulk" Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-23-2003 06:18 AM                        I have a question too: How much RAM has the dts reader?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-23-2003 07:02 AM                        As Gordon notes, all of the soundtracks (analog, Dolby Digital, SDDS and DTS) are recorded on the SAME sound negative. So if the printer is misadjusted for lateral guiding, ALL the tracks will be mispositioned. Theoretically, one track could be mispositioned if the sound negative were recorded improperly. Again, SMPTE Recommended Practice RP115 specifies "Photographic Control and Data Record on 35-mm Motion-Picture Release Prints". The centerline should be 0.297 inches (7.54mm) from the reference edge of the print. Examination of the affected reels should show whether or not the lateral position is incorrect, or if something else is interfering with the DTS timecode.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-23-2003 10:13 AM                     When DTS introduced the readers with the sticker over the lateral adjustment screw it had a slightly wider slit in it The best solution would have been for the original BACP SRD penthouse reader to have incoropated the DTS pickup as originally planned but it seems politics between to companies stopped that one  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-23-2003 11:02 AM                        Paul, I can assure you that the discs here are fine and we have just ceased using the slim poly cases that were damaging the discs. I cannot guarantee you that each and every disc is fine. There may be a few discs with pressing errors (yes, the production discs are pressed). If anyone has a disc that won't play, all you need do is call us or the film distributor and request replacement discs. We are working with the labs in improving their quality control of DTS timecode printing. Because of high volume printing, there are always going be a few prints that are bad off the production line. Aligning the reader is done at the factory and those readers with a "do not adjust" sticker should not need the lateral adjustment touched. This alignment centers the lens on timecode track and looks at the width or our "legal" printing area. NEVER EVER ADJUST THE LENS !!!! Adjusting the reader's gain is very easy and there is a technical notice on that. I've been discussing reader gain adjustment in the last two TechTalks. TechTalks come out quarterly and if anyone wants to get on the mailing list, send me an email. I also post them in our free online techcenter. Look under "technical updates". Lastly, just because a disc won't copy (you're not supposed to do that BTW) onto your PC does not necessarily mean that the disc is bad. Joe - I've looked over the last month's DTS threads and see that although some are concerning problems, others are simply questions. I don't see how that means DTS does not have "their act together". I think it means that people see that I'm around to help. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com [ 06-23-2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Karen Hultgren ]  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-23-2003 03:20 PM                     quote: Lastly, just because a disc won't copy (you're not supposed to do that BTW) onto your PC does not necessarily mean that the disc is bad. Funny how that coincidence works. Every time I have ever had a disc-based dropout (not a print/timecode issue) on a showing I can put the disc into the PC and try to copy the files. Every and I do mean EVERY single time it stalls on the reel that dropped out. Maybe you were referring to cheap PC cdrom drives and not ones of quality??? Besides, nowadays we intentionally dupe the discs to delete the stupid trailer files from them. Don't like it? Stop putting the trailer files on the feature discs or give the players a means to not self-pulse into digital until the automation tells it to (like Dolby provides). Copying those discs are not hurting anyone. When the run is over, they go into the trash. In the meanwhile, the originals are safely packed away in their cases, protected from handling damage. Shame on us indeed for what is effectively protecting the originals. In fact, I'll bet the industry loses billions of dollars just from our dts dupes that the trash men pick out of the trash and sell on Ebay. We should be lined up and shot.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-23-2003 05:51 PM                        Karen, Ok, we are not supposed to copy DTS cds. But DTS cds are just ISO CD and if a PC cannot read one of them I cannot see how a DTS unit, that IS a PC, can do it! Sometimes a different brand of CD can read cds that other cannot, ok. But it's not so common... More, we are not talking about CD-R cds but originals cds. I would say that if a PC cannot copy a DTS cd the cd probably is defective, do you agree? Unfortunately I do not have a DTS player at the plex I'm working now but over my last 4 year experience with a DTS6 I never encountered a defective cd. Bye Antonio  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-23-2003 08:53 PM                     And, of course, if interlocking is being used, do you expect us to use only one DTS unit and run the remaining umpteen houses in analog even though they are equipped with DTS? Bah! I don't think so. With today's "dogbusters," the movie would probably expire before extra disks were sent for interlocking purposes. I would do the same as Brad and a couple of thousand people just like him that want the best quality sound possble. And that is, fire up the 'ole CD burner and make a copy or two, then toss them in the trash when they have served their purpose. Antonio, I have. But in defense of DTS, I never had a bad preview disk. I think DTS is doing their best in their house. But the film companies are really screwing it up for us as well as DTS with their crappy quality control in printing and disk pressing. I don't think the film companies really give a rat's ass anyway. They probably hire a bunch of minimum wage dudes to save money at the expense of quality. They are just too greedy. I think National Film Service did that also. Many times I went to the film exchange, and seen a bunch of no-brainers that could not hold an intelligient conversation because they could not speak english. While watching them, they didn't know the difference between heads and tails of a reel. To them, it was nothing more than a hunk of tape about 2,000 feet long and 1.378 inches wide.  |  IP: Logged William T. Parr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 823 From: Cedar Park, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-23-2003 10:05 PM                     Well since this thread started I have been keeping a close eye on our DTS print of the Hulk and have hd no problems at all. However, one of the other theatres our tech services told me that they were having problems with reels 1 and 3 dropping out. Had replacement reels shipped and the problem disappeared. Seems there may be multiple problems with QA in more than one respect to the movie.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-23-2003 11:13 PM                        Paul wrote: quote: But the film companies are really screwing it up for us as well as DTS with their crappy quality control in printing and disk pressing. I don't think the film companies really give a rat's ass anyway. They probably hire a bunch of minimum wage dudes to save money at the expense of quality. Considering that a 6000-print release represents about 60 million feet of film being printed and processed, often with the cut negative being delivered to the lab about a week before those prints have to be in theatres, I personally feel the labs are doing a very good job under the circumstances. Yes, happens sometimes. But on average, very few reels need to be replaced.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-23-2003 11:36 PM                     But yet, John...the SRD and analog sound tracks seem to run just fine.....what is going wrong with DTS's time code track? It doesn't seem to, shall I say, "Track"? Cow Hum? I am looking for answers as to why....  |  IP: Logged Kevin Raisler Film Handler Posts: 52 From: Warsaw, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2003 posted 06-24-2003 12:20 AM                    I had to have Reel 8 replaced... the SR and Digital sound tracks were completely washed out in some areas...  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-24-2003 03:35 AM                        quote: give the players a means to not self-pulse into digital until the automation tells it to I understand you have a DFP-D3000? Then you can install the dts-6D to AUX1 or AUX2 and configure the automation so that dts doesn`t pulse itself on and off when it wants to. You can select it from your automation whenever you want then. I think people should BE SUPPOSED to copy the discs when they need them. I know, I know, the copyright issue with a disc that you can`t use otherwise anyway, but given the fact that some cinemas do not receive the CDs, dts should be happy about the people who take the initiative to copy the CDs rather than letting the player sit unused on the rack.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-24-2003 03:51 AM                     Michael, I use the DFP-3000 as a playback source for SDDS prints and also as a convenient way to input other sources into the system (like a 6 channel DVD signal or a mag dubber), since my main magnetic inputs are tied up with the 35/70mm MPU. That is only in the screening room though. There are no other DFP-3000 systems running around town that I am responsible for. They are only at AMC theaters and a couple of select UA theaters and both chains have their own techs to maintain them. As a testament to how reliable the dts system is *provided you have good discs and a good print*, I used to snip off pin 25 from the automation cable. This pin was the pulse to digital control from the dts6-d player. At the feature, the automation would pulse into digital/external and then if the dts should fail during the show, it would still resort to SR. I say this is a testament to the dts system's reliability, because it always worked without a glitch. You could also look at the processor at the end of a show and if it was still in digital/external (which it always was), then you knew there was no way it dropped out during the show. Unfortunately over the last couple of years I had to abandon that trick in favor of burning cds without the trailer files on them because of the disc issues. Now the systems are back to "auto-digital", and there are just no trailer files for the system to find, so all is well again. I welcome someone to come into a theater and tell me I cannot copy the discs for use with interlocking or as insurance to protect the originals, etc. That person needs a good slap in the face. There is nothing illegal going on that any judge with half a brain cell would find guilty. Someone would have to profit in some way, and that's just not happening. The discs are trashed at the end of the engagement. The whole argument is just stupid.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-24-2003 03:58 AM                        I did that too in some cases where the dts-6D was installed to a CP500. Then I configured dts to pulse on SK2 where I cunningly placed Dolby Digital. So in the rare cases when it dropped out, the show would continue in Dolby Digital. The reason I did that was not to battle loud trailers - German trailers almost never have dts unless attached to the dts feature. Rather, because the dts and DD kicking in at the same time sometimes caused the CP500 to mute (we discussed that a few months ago).  |  IP: Logged Greg Routenburg Expert Film Handler Posts: 178 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: May 2003 posted 06-24-2003 04:08 AM                     I hope this question wasn't already adressed as I would feel quite silly but what exactly is the problem with the trailers playing in DTS? I mean, wouldn't you want them to play in Digital if they can? I know I haven't seen a new DTS Trailer disk at my theatre in ages so having the trailer tracks on the feature disks is kinda nice.  |  IP: Logged

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