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Author Topic: CDS-Equipped Theatres Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-02-2003 10:04 AM                    quote: Ok, so HOW does (did) CDS work? CDS was an on film digital source that was located were the analog sound track was located on 35 MM film. Basically leaving the print with no back up for sound if the CDS failed. This in turn along with the developement by dolby SRD is why the CDS process failed. There were probably other factors involved with the demise.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 08-02-2003 11:24 AM                        "Dick Tracy" in 70mm CDS at the Edwards Newport was very impressive. The one showing I saw of it there was flawless sound-wise.  |  IP: Logged Bill Langfield Master Film Handler Posts: 280 From: Prospect, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-02-2003 11:45 AM                        Darryl/David, So that system is simalar to to-day's version of 70mm. (ie No back-up) - Save a DVD running on AV on a Panastereo I'm scared as hell of getting Titanic or Lawrence in DTS only - AGAIN. WHICH will happen around August 15th. There is no back-up. Well there is, TWO PLAYERS (Thanks Ray) but only the one READER. That is the worry! Waiting for the access to the Film-Tech section on advice about 'DTS reader head voltages'. But far as I know, as long as it reads 4.5 volts DC it should work ok. Bill.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-02-2003 11:59 AM                     When using the DTS 70mm failsafe setup with two players, you can hook them up to two timecode readers if you like. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-02-2003 01:23 PM                        Kodak/ORC Cinema Digital Sound (CDS) - the FIRST commercial bits-on-film digital sound system for theatres: http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/recording/motionpicture3.html http://users.pandora.be/nicks_auditorium/en/digital.html http://www.mtsu.edu/~smpte/timeline.html AFAIK, most of the reliability issues were hardware-related (e.g., overheating processor). Because the bits were printed in an unabraded area (replacing the analog soundtrack on 35mm prints), the prints generally did not have soundtrack wear issues. But by replacing the analog track, there was NO BACKUP if the processor failed. In hindsight, a fatal error.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-02-2003 02:27 PM                     If the Criterion theater in New York ever had a CDS installation they never played any movies on it. Having lived in New York City at the time (when CDS was active), I can say the Loews 84th Street 8, UA Gemini Twin and Cineplex Odeon Ziegfeld were the only installations. As far as I can tell, the Ziegfeld played only one CDS show with their system ("Edward Scissorhands"). The Loews 84th Street theater played "Dick Tracy" and "T2" both in 70mm CDS. The UA Gemini Twin was the first in Manhattan to show 35mm CDS with "The Doors", and had both 35mm CDS and 70mm CDS prints for "T2". One theater in Atlanta was left off the CDS installation list, the Cineplex Odeon Lennox Square (it was the one lone location in Atlanta showing "T2" in 35mm CDS).  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 08-02-2003 02:44 PM                     U.A. Midlothian Cinema, Richmond, Va.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 08-02-2003 03:06 PM                        John, I assume ORC did all of the manufacturing? If so, then it really doesn't surprise me that there were lots of hardware issues. The manager at the UA Continental in Denver (at the time) told me that sometimes it wouldn't even boot up. ORC was never very reliable and it is probably good that they are gone.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 08-02-2003 03:39 PM                     It was not the lack of a backup analog track that killed CDS, but the old problem of dual inventory. The studios had to strike and keep track of 2 seperate sets of prints, digital and analog. As soon as a better alternative came along the studios took it. Also, I believe, but not sure, that the George Moroder version of Metropolis was released in CDS. /Mitchell  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-02-2003 03:53 PM                    Yes that was a factor that they would never be able to get away from. Hence the introduction of dolby digital that allowed there to be a back up for analog sound. They still could have kept using CDS had there not been the hardware issues and the lack of a back-up. Just like anything else they could have used it in special situations. For a while they did duel invetory prints on Dolby digital encoded films. Some had it some didn't until the units were more widely spread out in theaters.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-02-2003 04:02 PM                     quote: It was not the lack of a backup analog track that killed CDS, but the old problem of dual inventory. I think this is correct; most sound recording systems, film or otherwise, do not hane a backup track, and this has not been seen as a major issue. Assuming that ORC and Kodak intended CCDS to succeed, and not just to be a demonstrtion of the principle of the technology, they must have believed that either: Dual inventory bould be acceptable to the industry. or CDS would, over a short time span, totally replace the analogue optical tracks in all theatres. The former has never been welcomed in the past, and the latter would seem highly unlikely, given the cost of the system. It would be interesting to know what their thinking was at the time.  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-02-2003 04:26 PM                     Was there any CDS trailers that were played before the feature?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-02-2003 04:54 PM                     The CDS features I saw in New York did not have any format trailers run before them. For "The Doors" engagement at the UA Gemini Twin they did have a couple large showcard posters in the lobby promoting CDS. But I think more people actually watched the movie a few blocks over at the Ziegfeld (which was showing a 70mm Dolby SR mag print). I'm not sure I agree with the whole dual inventory argument regarding CDS. Most theaters dealing with 70mm prints had to keep a 35mm print on stock as well for moving the show into a smaller auditorium. So this was nothing new really. I would argue the $20,000+ price tag for the CDS system combined with the early 1991 vaporware announcement Dolby Labs made regarding Dolby Digital were the real things that killed CDS. Even though nearly a year and half would pass before Dolby Digital debuted with "Batman Returns" Dolby Labs promoted the system to exhibitors and specifically noted how a single Dolby Digital 35mm print would carry both the SR optical track and Dolby Digital track. That pitch alone was enough to be a fatal strike against CDS, which would default to complete silence if the digital track failed. Also consider the strong brand name recognition held by Dolby Labs. It was very easy for exhibitors to hold off and wait for Dolby Digital to arrive, after all Hollywood was still striking 70mm Dolby mag prints for a good number of shows.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-02-2003 05:20 PM                     Of the two CDS presentations I saw (Dick Tracy, 70mm, Beverly Connection; T-2, 70mm, Cinerama Dome, both L.A.)I only saw the CDS snipe on the latter. It was HIGHLY unmemorable, consisting of a few plain vanilla notes and some cheap graphics. One problem with T-2 is that the image was off-center, as were all the previews that were also run in 70mm CDS.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-02-2003 05:30 PM                    No doubt Kodak and ORC viewed digital sound as a premium process so dual inventory wasn't that big a deal. I wonder whats become of the recording camera. It would be hilarious if just for the heck of it someone would shoot a CDS negative and then have SR•D, SDDS and DTS exposed onto it and then print quite a unique quad format positive of something.  |  IP: Logged

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