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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Topic: "Soul Plane" Cyan Dye Track Performance
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-03-2004 05:53 AM
Conversion estimates based on NATO and other surveys, as well as sales numbers for red LED units shipped by Dolby (107,000). The dyetracks.org website has background information:
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2004/DyeTrack.meeting.min.0304.html#status
quote:
The principal objective of this meeting was to plan how to get out the news of these releases to the remaining theatres that still need to install the necessary red readers. Probably 80% of theatres were now equipped (but see #4 below), thanks to the good work of NATO. The problem was the remaining 20%, mostly probably not NATO members. Labs were helping by putting fliers with prints. Articles were being published in Box Office , Film Journal and the Los Angeles Times...
CONVERSION NUMBERS
Ioan Allen indicated that it was now much more difficult to estimate the number of conversions from the number of red LED units shipped (107,000) as the oldest were now ten years old and were being replaced. Instead of quoting a number it was best to say "the vast majority of theatres in the U.S." were now equipped. Good figures were quoted for Canada, and many European countries, some of which were probably higher than the U.S. . Brazil was now 60%. Some countries in Africa for example might never convert and it would be necessary to make a small number of silver or better, High Magenta track prints for them.
http://www.dyetracks.org/AUS_RED%20Survey.xls
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/intl/jp/March2002/
quote:
Professor N. Yagi and his assistant, Ms. Kamikura of Nihon University, compared silver, high-magenta, and cyan dye soundtracks and reported on their technology and sound quality to technical representatives of all Japanese laboratories at the meeting on 21 June 2001. They concluded there would be no technical problems to switch to dye tracks in sound studios and laboratories when theaters change their sound systems to red LED...
There were 2,585 screens in Japan at the end of 2001. 1,509 were constructed after 1994 with the red LED system. In 2002, 123 screens are expected to be installed and 50 will be closed. It is expected that over 60 percent of screens in Japan will be equipped with the red LED system by the end of 2002.
Sam Yamaryo
Fuji Film Japan
**********************************
Sadayuki Sam Yamaryo
Ashigara Research Laboratory
Fuji Photo Film Co., Ltd
Tel: +81-(0)465-73-7165
Fax: +81-(0)465-73-7931
E-mail: sadayuki_yamaryou@fujifilm.co.jp
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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 06-03-2004 06:02 PM
Well, my theater is not playing Soul Plane, but I saw it this afternoon at another local theater. Confirmed cyan, and playing in optical (confirmed by the anoying little pop I heard when the lab splice went through). The sound was excellent. So good, in fact, that if it were not for the pop at the lab splice, I would have thought I was listining to a digital track.
I visited the booth after the show and looked at the print myself to confirm it was cyan. Also, that house had a cat. 700, but it was turned off for reasons unknown to the projectionist on duty that shift. So the print was, indeed, playing in optical.
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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-04-2004 02:33 AM
Information filtered through the cyan track organization tends to get geometrically distorted:
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2001/TechnicolorFilmService.meeting.min.0301.html
quote:
MINUTES OF A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE INTRODUCTION OF CYAN DYE ANALOGUE SOUNDTRACKS 23 March 2001
{...)
Report from ShoWest
Graham Edmondson {Dolby] reported from the American Dye Tracks Committee meeting he attended at the ShoWest conference. It is estimated that there are around 85 percent of North American theatres converted to red light readers.
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2004/DyeTrack.meeting.min.0304.html#status
quote:
MGM: 100% cyan on Soul Plane on May 28th
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/sstFaqs.shtml
quote:
What are the implications for archival film elements stored in preservation vaults?
Black and white prints (with silver tracks of various formats including variable-area and variable-density types) have been reproduced in tests using red LED sound readers with excellent quality, indistinguishable from that produced by white-light readers.
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2000/TechnicolorFilmService.meeting.min.0700.html
quote:
The meeting started with introductions by Mike Howell followed by a presentation of the three different sound formats. The demonstration took the form of two Chicken Impossible trailer prints containing normal, high-magenta, and cyan dye soundtracks. Projected together and switching between the projectors, it was possible compare each soundtrack version against the other two. The demonstration proved that the sound quality of the cyan dye soundtrack and the 'spitty' nature of normal soundtracks when played on red readers.
(note NOT unilateral, NOT variable density)
Out of courtesy, please resume this in the cyan tracks thread, as it's returned to propagandizing for the cyan tracks org/pointing out the inconsistencies & inaccuracies.
Steve Guttag's question about the installed base of red readers prior to 1997 would be a nice resumption there, especially in light of the cyan track organization's new stance of "We suddenly looked around, & there were all these red readers! We had nothing to do with it!"
http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/STRSIMPLEXHIST.pdf
"1997: A visible red L.E.D. replaces the infrared L.E.D. in the reverse-scanning Five Star soundhead in preparation for the industry's adopting a cyan dye soundtrack."
USL's Jaxlight patent is February 4, 1997. How long did R&D take before that? It specifically mentions dye tracks, & specifically is to read cyan.
http://www.uspto.gov/
Patent # 5,600,206
February 4, 1997
"In the present invention, the LED die array will illuminate analog modulation on the color dye layers. Utilizing narrow spectrum LED's, the modulation effect will occur only by the cyan layer with minimal effect by the other dye layers. If the exposure on the other dye layers is off in any manner or if the other dye layers are not used, it will not effect the overall clarity of the analog sound. "
And of course, take Dolby's name off of it
http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2000/TechnicolorFilmService.meeting.min.1000.html
quote:
MINUTES OF A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE INTRODUCTION OF CYAN DYE ANALOGUE SOUNDTRACKS 26 October 2000
Technicolor Film Services, Australia
At the first meeting it was decided that the best way of informing theatre managers and projectionists of cyan dye tracks was to produce a short promo reel. Ray Perry had been in touch with Keith Adamson, a member of staff from Technicolor, and had come up with a basic script, which was now on its third rewrite. At the meeting, Graham Edmondson (Dolby) and Tim Everett performed a run through of the script. There were a few minor alterations required but these were to do with terminology and removing trade names such as Dolby.
Even though cyan tracks are noisy to the point that now ALL (new, old, mono, stereo, domestic, foreign) optical tracks for cyan must be Dolby SR encoded if they don't want to sound noisy:
http://www.dyetracks.org/ci.os.0012.reddye.html
quote:
Extensive listening tests at Dolby Laboratories have shown that the use of Dolby SR encoded soundtracks, although not completely eliminating the additional red reader noise, reduces its effect to the point that air conditioner noise will significantly mask the problem.
Does Dolby get any licensing money when tracks are mixed with SR ?
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Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 06-10-2004 06:44 PM
Frank,
To answer your question, it depends. I've heard prints of "Anything Else" on white light readers twice. Both times there was a significant drop in volume. And when you turn it up there is a bit of noise that accompanies it. One was worse than the other, and neither was acceptable.
On the color spectrum, red is the spectral opposite of cyan, hence the red light readers are recommended for cyan tracks.
Not only that, and you guys out there should know this as well, but don't red LEDs die slowly, giving you warning when to replace the bulb. White lights go out suddenly, and subsequently, shows can be missed. Nobody like having to cancel a show.
Cyan, and loving it!
Yours, Ted
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