my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » BV Announces Cyan Track for "Mr. 3000" (Page 3)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5

Author Topic: BV Announces Cyan Track for "Mr. 3000" Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-19-2004 10:46 AM                    That explains why dye + white light is not the new standard. But since a red light reader won't see the other two layers it doesn't explain why they can't use all three layers for a degree of backward compatibility. Greg: Read up on the topic. It's not an upgrade, it's a downgrade. Upgrade would imply superior results. This is the opposite.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-19-2004 11:09 AM                        The technology of cyan dye tracks is covered in the published SMPTE papers and the discussions of the industry Dye Track Committee: Dyetracks.org Website with Technical Data and Committee Discussions With red readers, cyan dye analog tracks perform well, exactly as predicted by the SMPTE technical papers. As Gordon notes, the yellow layer of color print film is the least sharp and most grainy, and has not been used for the sound record. Using the yellow layer would degrade the performance of any analog track. The cyan and magenta layers are much sharper and have much finer grain. A cyan track works best with a red light reader, a magenta track would need a green light reader. Of course, red LED readers are most common today. There is much experience with magenta+cyan dye tracks on tungsten "white light" readers, since most have encountered prints where the silver soundtrack developer was accidently not applied properly, or applied to the wrong side of the film. In those cases, without silver in the track area, the cyan+magenta dye tracks were NOT satisfactory on a white light reader -- there is no "backward compatibility" for old tungsten readers. Cyan dye tracks are optimized for RED light readers.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-19-2004 12:49 PM                    John, I said a degree of backwards compatibility, not an acceptable way to play the film except in emergency. Would it be any worse than the old mag/optical track half covered by oxide? It sounds like you are confirming that this is a deliberate choice made to force the issue.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-19-2004 01:11 PM                        What about 16mm prints made from color reversal originals (no intermediate elements)? Aren't those dye tracks, too? How are they made? I know that they don't usually sound very good, but they play more-or-less correctly with standard exciter lamps.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-19-2004 01:18 PM                        quote: Scott Norwood What about 16mm prints made from color reversal originals (no intermediate elements)? Aren't those dye tracks, too? The old 16mm color reversal print films (e.g., 7389, 7390) had either silver or silver sulfide developed in the soundtrack area. Steve: Again, a dye track (regardless of which dye layers are used) will NOT play satisfactorily on an old "white light" tungsten or IR reader that has significant infrared response. Using the magenta layer would offer no significant advantage.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-19-2004 10:24 PM                        quote: Thomas Procyk Theater owners are paying Kodak and other labs' and processors' water bills through the conversion. The raw stock print film remains the same for cyan dye track prints. Because cyan dye tracks will reduce print waste, film manufacturers will actually sell LESS print film, probably tens of millions of feet less. Kodak FPC Film Salvage will have LESS silver to recover from scrapped prints being recycled. A significant majority of theatres already have reverse scan red LED readers, and are already taking advantage of the benfits Jack and others mentioned. As Mr. Fowler notes, overseas installations of modern red LED readers are excellent, even in some "developing" countries. Cyan dye tracks benefit the environment -- it's that simple.  |  IP: Logged Ted Costas Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-22-2004 07:16 PM                     Where did anyone ever say that the studios save money by going cyan? If this was the case, the conversion would have happenned long ago. No. "Mr. 3000" will be 100% Cyan. There will be no back-up prints for theatres that are not red light ready. Disney will release all it's films this way as of 2005. MGM has been successfully releasing in Cyan with a 50/50 method (half Cyan, half silver-applicated) since "Soul Plane." Two more studios will be soon jumping on the bandwagon. We hope to have an announcement by ShowEast. That's four out of ten studios in 2004. By mid-way through next year, we'll have the other six, knock on wood. No studio is against it. The international territories have been stepping up their conversion efforts. Cyan releases have been successful to date, and even though Brad thinks the Woody Allen film doesn't count... it was the first fish in the pond, I don't believe I need to say "Anything Else," do I? If you still are not red light ready, what are you waiting for? Hug that tree and let's get on with our lives. I hate to say it, but, it is a done deal. The fat lady has sung. The rest is elementary, my dear Watson. Yours, Ted  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 07-22-2004 07:53 PM                        quote: Brad Miller to date no one has done 100% cyan on a major release. (Yes that's right, that Woody Allen film doesn't count.) Sure it counts. It wasn't 100% cyan either. Not 50/50, but certainly not 100%.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-22-2004 11:11 PM                     Hey, my theaters are ready. Still, until there is a true 100% rollout on a major release, I don't consider it a fully successful test.  |  IP: Logged Ted Costas Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-28-2004 01:46 PM                     Daryl, Sorry, but "Anything Else" was 100%. Woody had some Original Negative prints made that were not cyan, for the Premiere and some special advanced screenings. And the lab made some silver-applicated prints, a handful, in case there were any problems... but there were not, and were never used. Every general release print that went out to a theatre for opening day and on had cyan analog and digital tracks. That is by definition, 100%. But I will say that "yes, we can count the cyan releases on one hand," 100% or 50/50. Either way, theatres have been prepared, or they got lucky getting a silver-applicated print and not being prepared. That is also by definition, problem free. Anyway, "Mr. 3000" will be 100% cyan. Speaking of that, I think it might be fun to have DTS color their discs a greenish blue... just because I hate to leave anyone out of the party. Yours, Ted  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-28-2004 05:51 PM                    Are you saying the SR•D will be cyan again, too? Why mess with that?  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 07-28-2004 06:22 PM                        I knew someone had reported silver tracks, as it turns out they were screening prints... http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001044#000006 quote: Bill Gabel My first print was High-Magenta. I have three High-Magenta prints and one Cyan print in my booth now. We handle screenings for Woody Allen here in NYC.  |  IP: Logged Ed Inman Expert Film Handler Posts: 103 From: Jackson, Mississippi USA Registered: Jul 2004 posted 07-28-2004 07:22 PM                        What about drive-ins and small-town or college theaters that still run mono sound anyway? If the db is simply reduced can't the operator just turn up the volume on the amp and filter out most of the excess hiss from specific frequencies using a graphic equalizer? Admittedly it's low tech but would, for example, the old Ballantyne mono sound heads popular at drive-ins even be capable of converting to "red light" anyway? I guess the real question I'm asking is "how bad is it?" i.e.: running a cyan track with a white light exciter. Has anybody tried? It is really as bad as they are trying to scare everybody into thinking or could low tech venues like drive-ins and small colleges get away with it? Would it at least be as good as, for example, a typical 16mm soundtrack? That would be valuable information for people who are running second and third-run venues on a shoestring budget.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 07-28-2004 07:44 PM                     Ballentyne Royal Soundmaster soundheads can be easily converted with a Jaxlite and keep the mono cell....a "technically' easy procedure. The cyan level is considerably lower than present tracks and the track recording parameters for true cyan tracks are different than present tracks...which will have possibly more distorsion besides the gain difference.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-28-2004 10:46 PM                     Ed, the noise would not be restricted to a particular part of the frequency domain. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.