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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Stupid "features" of cinema equipment (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Stupid "features" of cinema equipment
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-06-2004 03:52 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if this is anything more than an urban legend, but I've been told an anecdote (by two separate people, and the basic facts tallied) about a multiplex that opened in England in the late '80s or early '90s. The building costs overran by quite a bit, so in order to claw back some of the outlay the operators opted to install the cheapest projectors they could find, which turned out to be Monees. Out of 9 screens, five projectors broke down on the cinema's opening night.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-06-2004 04:11 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron said "Unfortunately, it is very true.
LIT's product line: Be afraid....VERY afraid. "
Be very afraid I see the maverick 1570 is there as well

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-06-2004 04:18 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The CFS Horizontal console is being built in India by Monee and being finished out in the USA. Generally Monee projectors require work on the intermittent, swap out of fastening screws to the gears, slow start kit to make it more reliable for our markets. Cinecita, as sold by ORC, had some issues with their castings. We had one in an install that we could not install the motor drive belt since a flaw in the casting was in the way [Roll Eyes] Citecita has been out of the projector business for a long while but has recently done some production. Unknown if it is being done directly by them or another source.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-06-2004 05:55 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, this is not a "feature" as much as a lack of one. The Kelmar rewind motor and control box uses an articulated arm to stop the motor when the wind is completed. It basically is just a shutoff switch. Yet there is no reason why that arm could not be shafted to a control pot that would control the motor speed, hence the control the film tension and keep a constant tension on the film from the beginning of the wind to the end. How beneficial it would be not to have that godawful tension at the end of the wind, which is what happens as the diameter of the motored reel increases. To eliminate it, you have to manually decrease the rewind speed. This can be done, but even when you do, you can't be as accurate as a servo-feedback system would, anyway in the real world, hardly anyone stands there controlling the motor speed. In fact, the auto-shutoff encourages operators to leave the bench during the rewind. A simple servo control using the existing arm could go a long way to make repetitive rewinding in change-over houses less damaging to prints.

So to make it on topic, the auto-shut-off "feature" on the Kelmar rewind motor is a stupid feature because it doesn't go far enuf.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 09-06-2004 06:51 PM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if any of these are still out there but the Norelco AA-II (DP70) originally had DC changeover solenoids. These tended over time, to become weak, resulting in a momentary blackout on changover. The DC versions were eventually replaced with AC changeovers, correcting the problem.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-06-2004 07:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, you have some SERIOUS cacheing issues with your computer. I know it wasn't a glitch, because you made the same post 3 hours apart.

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Mike Babb
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Norwich UK
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 09-06-2004 07:56 PM      Profile for Mike Babb   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Babb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never liked the way Entertainment Engineering automation (or Louismation) used the same piercing tone on the alarm to show startup. Sure, I can see it needing to be loud when the failsafe triggers but not when you're standing next to it.

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 09-06-2004 09:19 PM      Profile for Wolff King Morrow   Author's Homepage   Email Wolff King Morrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I find it odd that the lamp wouldn't shut off with the amp/hour meter board disconnected ince the contactor in the rectifier isn't connected to it
I would be tempted to fig a bit deeper they may be an underlieing wireing error somewhere

I called the company technician for help and he said the same thing happened to him as well. That's how I learned to fix the problem by checking to see if the wires were secure. Once I seated the gray wire more firmly into the jaw clamp, the lamp problem immediately fixed. I suspect the wire was jumping the clamp in short bursts, sending a false signal to strike the bulb somehow. In any case, I'm certain there's a better way to design such a system...

quote: Gordon McLeod
And as for travel distance if operated properly that is a non issue
I don't consider it a design flaw to expect it to be operated in a professional manner

I still have to agree with Brad. Look at it this way: You could design a projector & platter system to work properly, yet be unforgiving at every possible step of threading. There would be all sorts of issues and problems despite the fact that there is a "perfect" method to operating it. Not even an expert can pull the tension up with exactly the right touch every time, not to mention those rare cases when you have a brain-fart or got in a hurry. Humans aren't perfect, so there's some things that can be made more forgiving without compromising presentation.

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Matthew Jaro
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 09-06-2004 10:23 PM      Profile for Matthew Jaro   Author's Homepage   Email Matthew Jaro   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are the Monee projectors what LIT calls the M-series? Are these Indian knockoffs of the Simplex XLs? I think they did that in the past, but the M-series looks different. Also imagine a Peavey sound system and lamp stuff from the awful ORC!

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-06-2004 10:28 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
M = Monee, a knock of Century SA / R3 soundhead, not Simplex XL. Dick Niccum of LIT ( and former co-founder of CFS )has had a license agreement for some time with Monee to build consoles and platters in India and shipping some of these components to be outfitted in this part of the world.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 09-13-2004 07:23 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tim Reed
The Auto/Manual switch on the back of Strong lamphouses. The only possible benefit of this would be if the automation latched and held the lamphouse on, and you couldn't make it release
Sorry... just catching up here. Got a comment... and a gripe.

(Comment):
I use the manual switches on all of my lamphouses, 4kW and up. The "lamp" contacts in my automations are connected to motorized fire doors (doUsers) on the lamps. In this way, I leave my bulbs on through the business day. The manual switch is my main control for the lamphouse.

A local Regal house has 10 consoles that (last I heard) they leave hot all day. If not with the manual switch, I don't know how else they'd do it. ???

(Gripe):
Those manual switches are a total pain in the neck on any lamphouse that doesn't have motors on the doors. I can't count how many times I've caught someone "manualling" a lamp... trying to be efficient, because the downtime is only around 15 minutes. The thought is nice... but people will eventually forget, leave the darned thing in manual and slowly toast the projector. In those cases, I've disconnected the switches... on both the lamphouse AND their associated TA10s.

Good place for a "technician's key switch".

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-14-2004 07:54 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Stupid features of theatre equipment"

Actually the stupidest feature is some of the manufacturers of some of the equipment out there.......

Mark

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David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 09-15-2004 02:38 PM      Profile for David Graham Rose   Email David Graham Rose   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings All From an Autumnal Cambridge

My favorite item of equipment that was of no value whatsoever to the projection suite executive was the Ennio-Marconni International Automation system model B3. Each time a pulse was received, the cam-timer would turn and activate 2 switches. The first switch being a bell, and the second, a pause relay to the cam-timer!! The net result of this rather tiresome system was that each time a pulse was received a bell rang, alerting the projection suite executive to the pulse, forcing him/her to 'accept' the pulse as 'valid', restoring the second contact to allow the cam timer to continue on it's 360 degree journey. Very often,it was too late to 'accept' the cue, and the show would have been confounded.

Such happy days. I still have some drawings of the system as installed at the Friars Theatre, Canterbury.

With influenza,

Goodnight

David

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Ian Joseph Parfrey
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Bollier Queensland Australia
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted 09-15-2004 05:33 PM      Profile for Ian Joseph Parfrey   Email Ian Joseph Parfrey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would say that my choice of the worst piece of excrement to sully any projection room in the world is undoubtedly the ORC 1600B Integrated Xenon Lamphouse and Power Supply.
How this unholy piece of crap ever left the drawing board is beyond me!

Now, where does one start? So much crap, so little space.
For those of you fortunate enough not to be blighted by this thing I have attached a sketch from the manual.

First off, any engineer with any amount of brains should realise that to crow-bar a 1600 watt xenon lamp AND its associated rectifier and power supply into such a small area will generate enough heat to cook a suckling pig. And not too many electronic components enjoy being cooked...... unless you're a mercury arc rectifier. Heat kills electronics and that is exactly what happens here, with monotonous regularity.

This abhorrant bit of ship anchor also decides to "support the xenon bulb by CATHODE END ONLY with the ANODE UNSUPPORTED and floating. Why? Well to allow for expansion of course! Anodes by their nature are heavy so you can't tell me that a quartz bulb running at 230 degrees C max won't deform the bulb. And deform the bulb this junk does. I have pulled a xenon from this lamphouse after a huge 756 hours and measured a 1/4" sag over the bulb's length. This from a 1K bulb!

Next point, bulb access.
Pull out bolt from the rear of lamphouse and spin lamphouse 90 degrees. Sorry mate but things get hairy when you try to balance 61 kgs on a beam 8" across. You have got to be kidding! That does wonders for lamphouse alignment.

Next point.
Bulk purchase diodes, SCR's, fans and spark gaps cause you're gunna need 'em. Time to go for another spin!
SPIN YOUR LAMPHOUSE ROUND AND ROUND.... sounds like a square dance.

Next point.
PVC cooling ducts. These things are standard pvc tubes and bends designed to get cooling air to the freewheeling anode of the hapless xenon.
Hmmm. PVC + ULTRA VIOLET LIGHT = BRITTLENESS = CRUMBLING PVC TUBE = NO ANODE COOLING = STUFFED BULB = SPINNING LAMPHOUSE = SOUP THROUGH A STRAW FOR PROJECTIONIST.
What can I say?
This thing is JUNK,
JUNK, JUNK.

If any projectionists out there have a manager trying to put one of these things in your bio-box, just remember one thing.
PEOPLE GET LESS FOR MURDER!
 -

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Matthew Jaro
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 09-15-2004 06:32 PM      Profile for Matthew Jaro   Author's Homepage   Email Matthew Jaro   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had ORC 1000 integrated lamps. They were horrible. I had to have a stack of igniter boards which I went through like candies. I could never keep the thing going long enough. I also had to bypass the fan circuit because the idiots that designed this thought that once the lamp DC was off, the fan would no longer be needed. The dowsers would break constantly. What a winner. I now have Strong Super Lumex'es and they are great despite the manual switch.

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