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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Uptown Theater ditches quality projectionists in search of a crappy presentation (Page 14)

 
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Author Topic: Uptown Theater ditches quality projectionists in search of a crappy presentation
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-23-2005 03:51 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Phil Hill
it's ALSO us old fart's responsibility to pass on our collective and specific knowledge to those youngins that love the hardware as well as the "art".

..and you know Sir Phil, your dead on the money with this statement. For them youngins are just in desparate yearning to learn from us elders, for they crave knowledge and most of all-leadership. And they have that right to deserve the knowledge that they crave.

And who's to give it to them, but us "old farts" that have and gained testimonies of this experience, and them youngins know this. Why, they bomb us "old farts" with gobs of questions on what goes on upstairs in the film rooms - what makes it tick and we then show them.

And top of it off, it's the absolute joy in teaching and training most of these youngins what we know and do so they can learn the "art" of our trade-and eventually teach others themselves of this valuable trade.

Some may think that film projecting is a dying trade, but in the long run, it's a trade that is strong as ever - just have to do some of it a bit different than what it was done in the past.

..and I take joy in this new training of an old trade to others, for it builds respect between teacher and student(s), plus a form of bond between the teacher and the student(s) that never ceases to end - like an eternal "team" of sorts.

..also with this, of such successful results, a Legacy has been left of such one teacher.

I leave Legacies where ever I go and have been, to this day.

And I plan on to continue to leave Legacies until I can't do it anymore.

thx-Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-23-2005 06:32 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never thought of myself as that old....but I must admit...seeing remakes or restorations of films that I showed when the originals were new did have a bit of an "old-timer" feeling to it. I must admit, I don't discount the "romance" of showing films the old way. I did come in on carbons and they did provide a superior light (color, if not quantity).

I don't recall anyone saying that these young kids should be dismissed out of hand. However, when one gives you a dismissive statement like "changeovers in 2005?" it does make one roll there eyes. There are a great many theatres that have changeovers in 2005...the majority? Surely not in mainstream theatres...then again there are not many single-screen mainstream theatres left either. The statement is as absurd as dismissing the Uptown in 2005 due to its single screen in the era of the multiplex.

For the "romance" of the show running reel to reel...the DC area still has a few...the AFI/Silver taking the crown of all of em...8 film projectors for 3 screens with a DCinema projector on each as well. The AFI/Silver is running 70mm today even (Lawrence of Arabia)...it runs silents (with organ accompanyment), and just about everything in between (sorry no Cinerama or Nitrate). There is a lot of the Old way and the new way there too. Four of the film projectors are for theatre #1, orginally built in 1938 and has its Art Deco features restored.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 07-23-2005 12:02 PM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And let's not forget the Byrd Theatre in Richmond, Virginia. They run changeover on 2 XLs along with a Brenograph, spotlight and Barco. (See pictures warehouse) You should see the presentation on a weekend when the organ preceeds the film. The transition is done with a mirror ball and tightly focused spot, and appears almost seamless. Bill and Gary run one heck of a booth.

quote: Dick Prather
I couldn't have said it any better. They had to have been there to feel what it was like.
AMEN

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-23-2005 05:05 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I always find it humorous when the whole "just look at how many changeover theaters are still in operation" discussion comes up...and then they are named one by one. [Wink]

I don't consider myself an old-timer either, but in my young'un days I have ran changeovers and carbon arc (with evil Standard Simplexes) on 2000' reels. I think there is some difference in how the term "old-timer" is interpreted though. To me an "old-timer" is someone who just won't change his ways no matter what and is insistent that all new technology is crap. We see this all the time on these forums in two ways. First is platter/automation and second is digital cinema.

I know at least one guy in his 60s (not on the forum) who while he loves running film via changeover and carbon arcs, openly admits that if the film is going to be ran more than a few times that a platter presentation is going to produce the superior show. (The same goes in reverse if the film is to be ran only a couple of times.) I certainly wouldn't call him an old-timer. Maybe physically he is, but mentally where it counts, he sure as heck isn't.

The best projectionists use all available forms of projection as it best suits a particular need, as each variation has it's weak and strong points. Those who are firmly "it must be ran changeover" or "it must be ran platter" or "it must be ran carbon arc" etc are the ones who in my book are the weaker projectionists. No one form of film transport or piece of equipment is *always* better. It depends on the situation.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-23-2005 05:58 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The difference Brad...in this day and age, I just don't see many advantages to platters...technology has helped the changeover cause too with such projectors as the Kinoton E series. While there are some inherent advantages to the single projector system, I don't find many...but lookie what we have here...another platter/changeover discussion brewing...

Back on topic...the managers couldn't resist...they decided they needed that digital sound...so they used and totally wasted the projectionist's print!

Correction to my previous statement...the AFI/Silver is running 70mm tomorrow (Sunday)...not today...today they had a WC Fields film in 16mm!

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 07-23-2005 06:46 PM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMHO the old-timers were those who cut their teeth on nitrate.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-24-2005 02:40 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..and I did run some nitrate, but not too big of a reel of it. At a drive in for an old intermission reel. 1000 ft of that good ol nitrate stuff. I definitely kept the upper magazine doors closed when that stuff was going through my Motiographs and made sure that the firetrap rollers were turning freely.

Then, my theatre where I worked at for 12 yrs still had the porthole fire steel plate shutters still intact and operational with the lead brakeaways in the middle of the tension chain which was strung across the main of the booth close to the ceiling, and a big CO2 extingusher hanging on the wall near the machines.

..now we have to "fear" when Kodak/Balco, ATi/Christie, and Disney/Dolby shove all of us out of business with their "digital leasing" plan - to get digital in 2000 or more screens.

quote: Brad Miller
(with evil Standard Simplexes) on 2000' reels.
Them's are FUN machines to play with - barely can get your hand in there when threading being the frame is so narrow. Even had the crank hole to put a crank in if your motor dies. (lol)

-Monte

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-2005 03:35 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't like the way they handled film from the first day I touched them. [Razz]

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-24-2005 07:40 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Rick Raskin
IMHO the old-timers were those who cut their teeth on nitrate.
Given that I handle nitrate 2-3 times a week on average, I guess that makes me old, then! [Roll Eyes]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2005 08:51 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
While there are some inherent advantages to the single projector system, I don't find many...
Steve,
I can think of one major thing that single projector systems contribute to real world presentations and that is consistancy..... be it good or bad consistancy. While in your perfect world changover setups probably do fare very well remember to keep in mind that in the real world of child operators and supposed "chain qualified technical people" they would suffer dramatically and become very inconsistent just about every place.

Brad,

The first theatre that I operated at up in Michigan back when I was a Sophomore in High School had a pair of Standard Simplex's that ran just fine and didn't damage any film. Basically if used within their capability they are as good as any other machine. I still service MANY theatres that run Super Simplex's and a couple that run E-7's and I will say DITTO for them too, any of them are capable of putting out a dam good image if properly maintained. One thing for sure is that all three of those machines are alot better built than the crap that is being made today.

Mark

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-24-2005 12:28 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're absolutely right, Mark, my experience indicates the same. Standards, Supers, and E-7's looked like hell as far as the film path was concerned, but unless they were just worn down to nothing, they were very gentle on prints and quiet in operation. I never saw one damage a print.

I also agree that platters remove a lot of potential errors that could be made by an incompetent in a c/o booth. I've seen both sides of that coin. One guy I ran a 20-min. reel booth with absolutely would not endeavor to thread in-frame. So, nearly every one of his changeovers would come up out of frame. He just attached no importance to it, saying that's what the framing knob was for. I later ran a 6k reel booth with another guy who said the same thing, although, I forced him to pay attention to it by REMOVING THE FRAMING KNOB. He wined and cried about it, but I made my point. [Big Grin]

And I completely agree with Brad that, in today's climate, there is a time and a place for each system. I have recommended both in the appropriate installations over the years.

Personal druthers: if i'm projectionist, I'd rather be at a drive-in somewhere in the sticks, with 20-minute reels and some big-ass carbon lamps, like Ashcrafts. If I owned a theatre, though, and someone else was going to be operating, it'd be a platter hands down.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-24-2005 12:37 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True. Just when I had to do a rebuild on an E-7 (intermittent rebuild, gate and trap rebuild with new rail and guide parts, rebuilding that damned oblique shaft with the new fibre gears and putting in the appropriate shims behind the oblique shaft mounting plate for the correct gear spacing...), that E-7 ran so quiet, smooth and with a very steady picture, that all one could hear was the Strong platter whirring and the blower on the lamphouse whizzing away. And one couldn't even hear that machine through the port window which wasn't covered with glass

And I agree also with the Standards: thread them right and take care of them with the continual maintenace (since these machines had projectionists, not "B-ushers" to handle them) and these "old timers" can handle film as they supposed to do and much better than these newer machine can - being built with such better precision and more of a hands on quality than with these newer ones. (Why I miss my Motiograph AA's)

DeVry Portables were fun to thread as well.

quote: Tim Reed
with 20-minute reels and some big-ass carbon lamps, like Ashcrafts.
LOL - Big ass carbon lamps would be those Peerless Hy Candescents condensor arcs, Stong 135's or the Futura IIs with 13.6mm rotator positives. But the big-assed Ashcraft, as you want, are the Corelite variety with that blower assembly sitting on top of the lanphouse.

You know, one could miss running carbons..that kept you busy. LOL

-Monte

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2005 12:58 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"LOL - Big ass carbon lamps would be those Peerless Hy Candescents condensor arcs" Na JetArcs that is the real lamphouse

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2005 02:02 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yea, JetArcs are so big even on a DP-70 that you have a difficult time ever locating the projector mechanism..... [Eek!] .

Tim, The nice thing about Standards,Supers, and E-7's is that you can install a Posi-Trol intermittent sprocket on them and they are actually as steady or steadier than a brand new Kinoton. The parts in those old movements were made of actual real high quality steel and machined by artisians.... not some number cruncher running a CNC machine. Granted those old Simlpex's are not as light efficient but they are definately no slouch in the image quality department.

I too have removed framing knobs to get the point across. Works good till that guy quits and they hire a replacement projectionist.....
quote: Dick Prather
I couldn't have said it any better. They had to have been there to feel what it was like.
Dick
IATSE #159



Dick,
There's a very easy way to explain the differences with some comparisons. running a small 35mm two machine booth was akin to flying a Cessna 150, Running a larger two machine booth was like flying a DC-3, while running a two machine 70mm booth is akin to flying a 727. That puts 15/70 akin to taking a trip to the moon on a Saturn V.

Is Local 159 still in existance?

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-2005 04:11 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting, a few years back Joe and I were pushing the idea of locking the framers down (or removing them) and we got blasted by pretty much everyone. Now suddenly the idea is acceptable?

I get the need for framing controls on art houses and such, the mainstream theaters that only play stuff from the majors really don't need to worry about printing that is slightly off or 1.66 aspect ratio prints, etc.

(Let's please not sidetrack this topic even farther off-course. I just thought this was humorous and should be pointed out. [Big Grin] )

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