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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Uptown Theater ditches quality projectionists in search of a crappy presentation (Page 6)

 
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Author Topic: Uptown Theater ditches quality projectionists in search of a crappy presentation
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 01-19-2005 10:11 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now..going outside of the presentation topic here, for I have to ask this general question: There is a statment that the original booth was positioned above the balcony as with the common design of the older movie palaces with a downward throw of over 10 degrees.

There is now mention of the three new booths - Able, Baker, and Charlie (L,C, and R, booths for the Century Cinerama machines). Where were these booth placed at in the building-below the balcony area, or inside of the balcony framework area towards the front so the throw can be more square to the screen without too much rectification problems, or close to the main floor below the balcony at the back wall?

Is there a link to this theatre that one can go to?

Just curious on the layout of this theatre. - thx Monte

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

- posted 01-20-2005 02:23 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One distinction I'd like to make is that just because an operator is "union" does not automatically make them a good projectionist. When I used to manage for GCC, we had great union projectionists and horrible union projectionists. I prefer the terminology "professional" to designate a quality projectionist.

If I owned a theater, I would definitely employ a qualified "professional" to run the booth but I would not contract with the union. This is mainly because I believe in compensating people for the quality of their work, not the duration of their employment combined with a negotiation. I firmly believe that what created the horrible union projectionists is the union system itself. A not-so-motivated projectionist knows that as long as they do the bare minimum, they'll get the same pay as the guy that works his ass off to have a perfect presentation.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 01-20-2005 02:56 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lyle Romer
....just because an operator is "union" does not automatically make them a good projectionist.
SHIT, DAD! Ain't that the shoot-me-where-it-hurts, blessed, unfortunate truth!!!

Of course, no offense to the bretheren who are extremely dedicated within this field, but there are those who can absolutely "taint and stain" this field as well.

And these are the ones whom the "big boys" have decided to kick out and abolish the union in their theatres.

Big example: I know of a 3plex that still has a full time "operator" (he's not qualified to be called a projectionist, in my book), who get's paid 14 bucks/hr-FULL TIME, 40hrs plus!

The booth looks like a cyclone has hit it, presentations horrible with off-centered presentations that aren't even centered within the maskings, flickering, overamped bulbs, scratched prints up the wazooza (Century head with the sliding lens mounts, AW3, Super-LumeX, RAVEN automations...et.al.), uses opaque tape and shoepolish for splice markings, et.al. . Then, on top of it all while the shows are going, has a cot upstairs and snoozes most of the shift.

This 3plex used to be a union house and he was one of the union operators in this area.

Now, since the union is long gone, this 3plex, which is privately owned, has kept the union wage scale for this idiot. Plus, he comes to work half wasted out of his mind to where if you lit a match, he'd explode for sure.

He's an embarrasement to the union as far as I care. His appearance and operations are so discouraging knowing that this is the main cause of the turnaround to the manager/operated system.

It's horrible at times when I go there at times to help them out on some problems that they have had.

thx-Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 01-20-2005 08:24 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the Uptown, Able, Baker, Charlie reside at or nearly on vertical centerline of the screen...virtually no up or downward tilt from the projectors.

I dunno who brought up the Union as part of this subject, other than as one of the purposes of getting rid of the operators is to "bust" the union. Union or not, the Uptown had the best.

Lyle, with respect to a union contract...it is the employee's perogative to join, form a union and to collectively bargain for all forms of wages and working conditions...it is NOT the employer's right to not bargain with such a collective unit. In fact, it is against the law. So, if you do get to own your own film theatre, I wouldn't have that attitude. Generally, if you treat your employees well, in any type of business, you don't have to worry about unions. Most places that have unions got them for very good reasons.

Steve

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

- posted 01-20-2005 10:30 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

I guess it depends on the State. I'm in a "right to work" state. In my "real" job as an Electrical Engineer, one of the papers I signed upon employment was a contract forbidding me (or anybody else) from forming or joining a union.

I'm sure that at one point in time (before labor laws got really strong) unions were a necessity to guarantee safe working conditions and some sort of fairness in hiring and firing practices. It is my opinion that this is no longer needed. I believe in pay for quality of work and the "union model" doesn't allow that. I also think that is the biggest problem with our education system. Too many teachers that are untouchable because they have tenure that don't have to put effort into teaching if they don't want to.

To sum up, I am 100% in favor of qualified, professional projectionists running the booth and not ushers or M/O. I just believe that the employer and quality employee would both be better off without the union involved.

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Jeremy Fuentes
Mmmm, Dr. Pepper!

Posts: 1168
From: Corpus Christi, TX United States
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted 01-20-2005 10:35 AM      Profile for Jeremy Fuentes   Email Jeremy Fuentes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, Steve, any more print damage?

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 01-20-2005 11:42 AM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[thumbsup] to Steve, for his post. [beer]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 01-20-2005 12:03 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Florida is indeed a "Right to Work" (for less) state. However, as far as joining or forming a union goes, that is federal labor laws. What a Right to Work state gets you, as an employee is the ability to NOT join a union, even if you work at a facility that is serviced by a union contract. You will still be liable for the administrative fees associated with servicing the contract you work under.

You and I share different viewpoints on Unions and their present need or desire. Though I think in 2005 unions are needed more than ever, I also feel that in an ideal situation, a union is an unecessary expense and overhead. There is nothing intrinsic with a union that requires a senority system that takes preference over quality of work though employers may sign away the ability to insure they have the most qualified worker. It is all in how you write the contract.

Steve

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 01-20-2005 12:41 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can an employer make an employee sign an agreement to not join a union? I didn't think that would be legal.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 01-20-2005 01:53 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Generally, if you treat your employees well, in any type of business, you don't have to worry about unions. Most places that have unions got them for very good reasons.
Just thought I would re-quote Steve on that to enforce a major point so many people tend to miss on the union debate. Treat the employees well and pay them what they are worth and the word "union" won't even be a consideration.

Those places where unions start organizing should immediately take a look at the management, upper management and pay rates and re-evaluate their situation...because odds are it is one of those or a combination thereof that initiated the whole union thing.

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Jeremy Fuentes
Mmmm, Dr. Pepper!

Posts: 1168
From: Corpus Christi, TX United States
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted 01-20-2005 01:59 PM      Profile for Jeremy Fuentes   Email Jeremy Fuentes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True...if I got paid $14 an hour like the guy Monte was talking about, I wouldnt complain about a thing...ever. They could even take out A/C and heating in the booth....I would manage.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

- posted 01-20-2005 02:14 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Florida is indeed a "Right to Work" (for less) state. However, as far as joining or forming a union goes, that is federal labor laws. What a Right to Work state gets you, as an employee is the ability to NOT join a union, even if you work at a facility that is serviced by a union contract. You will still be liable for the administrative fees associated with servicing the contract you work under.
Steve is correct as far as the right to work laws. The company my father used to work for befor he retired had a plant in I believe North Carolina that had both Union and Non- union working side by side.

quote: Brad Miller
Just thought I would re-quote Steve on that to enforce a major point so many people tend to miss on the union debate. Treat the employees well and pay them what they are worth and the word "union" won't even be a consideration.
We have a major car manufatuer in our area. Toyota to be exact, They have been around for around 15 years now and to this day are non-union. From what I understand the union has attempted to come in but voted away by all workers because what they get paid and in benafits was far better than what the union can offer. There have been circumstances where a union has been voted in only to see a plant close soon after.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 01-20-2005 04:03 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are several examples where unions have killed the companies they work for by their demands and tactics.

Additionally, federal charges were filed, and I believe convictions have been handed down, against some Chicago union leaders for a campaign of terror they waged against Cinemark, including the use of chlorine gas bombs and an attack upon a theatre manager that nearly killed him.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 01-20-2005 05:18 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have a problem so much with unions or the idea of unions... they can do alot of good and some do. I just have yet to see anything really good come from IATSE except for members retirement plans.... but thats not rocket science requiring a union to get, creating your own is easy.

My biggest problem with IATSE are the ties to organized crime. Those of you that don't care that you're inadvertantly connected to it.... so be it. The recent crimes commited by members of Local 110 is the best latest example of many years of this sort of stupid behavoir. Yes, I feel bad that the operators at the Uptown have been treated this way.. not only is the lockout illegal but that now leaves only two really decent theatres in the counrty to see a film at.

Mark

[ 01-20-2005, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Mark Gulbrandsen ]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 01-20-2005 05:23 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
A union should never do anything that absurd, but unfortunately it does happen up in the northeast.

I wonder if Cinemark was doing their typical thing where they were not engaging in proper and fair negotiations that led to that. They did that down here back in the early 90s and it was PATHETIC the things they did to keep the union out. Had they treated the guys decently to start with rather than as a nice warm pile of shit, the union would've never even been a consideration. Fortunately they learned a little bit from that and they aren't as bad, but I still bet (without knowing any facts on this particular instance) there was unfair negotiations and union-busting going on that initiated that.

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