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Topic: Water circulator alert

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-29-2005 03:23 PM

Good tip Dick. Do you have a specific model or two that you have used and recommend?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2005 04:08 PM

Actually if one places the pressure sensor switch on the return hose down at the circulator there is little likelyhood of it getting plugged up.... Its the water block or dovetail that usually gets plugge and having the pressure switch in that line could prove useless.

Mark

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Dick Twentyman
Film Handler

Posts: 21
From: Highton, Victoria, Australia,
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 05-29-2005 09:47 PM

Brad,

I have seen Honeywell vane switches used. You would need to be able to specify the possible range of flow rate (litres/second) required for safe operation. Honeywell would be able to nominate the correct part number.

Mark,

I agree with you on placing a pressure switch on the outflow side of the cooling system, but only if the whole system is pressurised. If water leaving the projector simply pours from the open end of the return pipe back into the cooling reservoir, then there would be not much more than normal atmospheric pressure on the return. This could be a bit unreliable - hence the use of a flow switch rather than a pressure switch.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-30-2005 01:38 AM

quote: Thomas Jonsson
Lots of theaters seems to use circulation systems. Is this for practical reasons instead of connecting to the house water pipes?

It's for environmental reasons. Using continuously running tap water is a monumental waste of a natural resource and in most municipalities such use is illegal. We used to have air conditioning units that used tap water to carry heat away from the compressor instead of exhausting to the outside in situations where outside access is not possible. This type of air conditioner was very practical in terms of being able to easily cool rooms that had no outside access, but they were obscenely wasteful of our water supply. Laws were passed about 15yrs ago that made using these units illegal.

In NYC, the use of any device that would use continuously running municipal water to operate is now strictly regulated. They even passed regulations on how much water the commodes can use per flush. Everyone had to replace their toilet bowls with high effiency units that use about 1/3rd the amount of water as the older ones.

Water conservation is one of the reasons the movie industry moved to cyan soundtracks -- it cut down the amount of water needed to process the hundreds of thousands of feet of film processed every year.

Water is not an unlimited resource; we need to stop thinking of it as such.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-30-2005 08:42 AM

quote: Frank Angel
Everyone had to replace their toilet bowls with high effiency units that use about 1/3rd the amount of water as the older ones.

While the sale of new ones are regulated (and many import the higher flow ones), I was not aware of any law requiring the removal of the old toilets for the new ones. Personally, I feel before any politician makes such a law, THEY should have to live with their new regulation first (in their homes and work place). The new toilets, especially when they first came out didn't save water, they wasted it...it took several flushes.

quote: Frank Angel
Water is not an unlimited resource; we need to stop thinking of it as such.

Brainwashing though that sort of statement may be...short of shooting it off into space...it actually is pretty unlimited and renewable. It may need to be cleaned or desalinated and such but even in space they have learned to filter urine to reclaim the water rather than rely only on "fresh" water. Maybe not a pleasnt thought to some but a smart way of reusing (aka recycling).

I like filtered city water for projectors over mere re-circulation...now a water chiller is the real deal...it tightly regulates the water temperature (don't want condensation either) (imagine that...pulling water right out of the air). Now the environmental impact of a water chiller with its refrigerant and electric consumption verus using city water and filter I can't speak to.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-30-2005 12:18 PM

Frank Angel wrote: "Water conservation is one of the reasons the movie industry moved to cyan soundtracks -- it cut down the amount of water needed to process the hundreds of thousands of feet of film processed every year."

Over 10 BILLION feet of print film is processed annually. That's why reducing water use in processing by about 50% with cyan dye tracks is so important.

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R. Andrew Diercks
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 232
From: Marion, Iowa (In the middle of everywhere)
Registered: May 2003

posted 06-02-2005 12:15 AM

At the risk of sounding retarded and eliminating the "expert" from my title, I have to ask. [Wink]

What is a water circulator used for on a projector? I have never seen or heard of it. It's obviously used for cooling, but cooling what exactly and what types of projectors require them?

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-02-2005 05:00 PM

quote: R. Andrew Diercks
It's obviously used for cooling, but cooling what exactly and what types of projectors require them?

The water is used to cool the film trap and/or the aperture when running high-wattage bulbs.

Any projector running 4000W or higher bulbs should have some type of cooling in place, be it water or forced air (some Simplex models had a forced-air cooled gate)

Most major projectors have an option for water cooling of their gates, some come standard with it.

-Aaron

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R. Andrew Diercks
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 232
From: Marion, Iowa (In the middle of everywhere)
Registered: May 2003

posted 06-02-2005 05:23 PM

This would be why I have not seen one. Most wattage I've run is 3k. Largest auditorium is barely 300 seats.

Thanks for not making me look too stupid. I would wager that there were others out there wanting to ask though.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-02-2005 07:20 PM

quote: Aaron Sisemore
Any projector running 4000W or higher bulbs should have some type of cooling in place, be it water or forced air (some Simplex models had a forced-air cooled gate)

Christie is the only projector out there that is not available in a water cooled model. Alot of theatres regularly run lamps as high as 7kw through them with just the small muffin fan assist that they normally come with. Those runing higher wattage lamps will generally replace the shutter belt twice as often.

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 06-03-2005 02:14 AM

quote: John Pytlak
Over 10 BILLION feet of print film is processed annually. That's why reducing water use in processing by about 50% with cyan dye tracks is so important.

(..gonna drift a little off-topic here on the subject of the cyan tracks) -> If this process is so great and cost effective, then why haven't ALL of the labs converted over to cyan by now? Does it take special processing, or special equipment to do cyan processing?

Yes, we've seen Buena Vista and MGM (now SONY) dabble with the cyan printing, yet others still have the high magenta processing still at large - and that even includes all the trailer processing from all the labs...

(Whew..now, back on topic)

More pictures of water cooled devices -

..a picture of a water cooled lamphouse - with the cooler/recirculating pump behind the unit.

..a picture of a 13Kw bulb that is a water cooled. Coolant goes through the ends of the bulb and help cool down the tungsten electrodes inside.

Takes a good hour or so to change one of these bad boys out. These are used in IMAX projectors..and other lighting devices.

thx-Monte

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-03-2005 01:17 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
If this process is so great and cost effective, then why haven't ALL of the labs converted over to cyan by now? Does it take special processing, or special equipment to do cyan processing?

Same film, simpler processing (no need for soundtrack redeveloper application and water wash-off).

Distributors wanted to be sure it worked as well as predicted. Some also want to wait until less developed areas of the world have a higher percentage of red LED readers, as prints may be recycled into those territories.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-03-2005 01:34 PM

quote: Frank Angel
Water is not an unlimited resource

Oh, but it is. Even when you flush the toilet, the water doesn't just disappear. [Razz]

There are methods of recycling, even wastewater recovery. And let's not forget about the biggest water recycling system: rainstorms.

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Dieter Depypere
Master Film Handler

Posts: 343
From: Deutsch-Wagram, Lower Austria, Austria
Registered: May 2005

posted 06-03-2005 01:38 PM

quote: John Pytlak
Some also want to wait until less developed areas of the world have a higher percentage of red LED readers, as prints may be recycled into those territories.

All (!) Austrian cinemas were committed to have LED readers installed (Were cinemas in other countries also committed?). We had 2 ordinary sound readers from "Siemens Klangfilm" installed on Philips FP6 projectors. The cinema leader had to pay a lot of money to have these units installed.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 06-03-2005 02:10 PM

Maybe we should say 'drinkable water' is limited; that is, water that doesn't taste and smell like it came from a swimming pool. Only one thing to do I guess ... drink more [beer]

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