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Topic: Water circulator alert

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-03-2005 02:28 PM

quote: Dieter Depypere
All (!) Austrian cinemas were committed to have LED readers installed (Were cinemas in other countries also committed?).

The National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO) made a committment:

http://www.dyetracks.org/reports/minutes/2002/Natl_Assoc_Of_TheatreOwners.html

quote:
Mary Ann Grasso, Vice-President and Executive Director of NATO confimed that at the recent Spring Board and Committee meeting held in Washington, D.C May 8-10, 2002 the NATO Technology Committee expressed continued support for the conversion to cyan dye track. The Committee suggested to the Board that NATO select a firm date by which NATO member theatres' would be fully equipped with red readers. The NATO Board of Directors recommended by unanimous approval that all theatres be properly equipped with red light readers by July 3rd, 2003.

http://www.dyetracks.org

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 06-03-2005 05:28 PM

We at Oxford Movies in New Zealand, where we do one showing of a title about every two weeks, have red LED readers. I'm sure I recall JP saying NZ had 82% red LED reader penetration ages ago. We must be the most infrequent presenter in NZ, but we got there. NZ must be very close to "all cinemas are cyan capable". If a little community cinema like us can do it, everyone can.

And our gates are not water cooled. Though our previous projectors were originally (steam) traction engin driven...

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 06-03-2005 06:31 PM

Water cooling is not as neccessary on some projectors such as Christie, Ernemann and Kelmar kits since they are using an aircraft grade aluminum constuction which resists heat better than the more typical brass based gate material

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 06-03-2005 08:22 PM

I perform a large number of Kelmar gate upgrades to turret. The rear surface of these is nearly identical to the Christie (Kelmar built the early Christie projectors.)

The day finally came to use 4000 watt and the trap was REALLY hot.

The outcome is that we ended up modifying the Kelmar to water cooling. Because of the heavy aluminum (not brass) it actually worked better than the usual watercooled gate.

Louis

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 06-04-2005 12:33 PM

The aluminum works well on Dichoric glass reflectors or inefficently designed lamphouse / consoles with 4KW. One of our local dealers uses metal reflectors for 1 - 3 kw and goes to glass above this output with his projects with Christie projectors.

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Jean-Michel Grin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 222
From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 06-10-2005 04:18 PM

Gentlemens,
I have a question:

What kind of mixture is recomendable to put in water circulating barrel ?

I've heard many options:

-Only distilled water
-Distilled water + Alcool (Brenspirit) (Sorry for my typping in English)
-Distilled water + Ethylene Glycool (Like in a car's cooling cuircuit)
-Normal water from the "valve" (the worst idea i mean)

In one of our theater, the Lamphouse is fitted with a 7kW xenon lamp, and the projectionist has to refil every 5 weeks the water tank !

Any idea is welcome !

Thanks, and sorry for my weak English !

Jean-Michel Grin

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-10-2005 06:03 PM

Jeam Michael, Some type of additive is necessary to prevent lime from building up. Weather you use anitforrze or the Kinoton additive(very expensive but the best)is up to you. If you use antifreeze I reccomend a 30/70 mix of antifreeze to distilled water.

If you can get de-ionized distilled water then you are in luck and can use that straight with no additives. When I worked the Transmitter at the TV station years ago we had our own still which made just enough de-ionized distilled water to keep the cooling system topped off. The transmitter cooling system used this water, pumped it through the Klystrons which converted it to steam... then a heat exchanger and condenser thurned it back into a liquid again. In practice very little was lost unless the cooling system spring a leak. We can be thankful that todays Xenon systems(Imax and CDC 15/70 systems excepted) dont require this sort of thing.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-11-2005 09:30 AM

di ionized water will attack most metal parts especially brass and copper and just eat them away

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Alan Dallas
Film Handler

Posts: 48
From: Prescott Valley, AZ
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 06-15-2005 02:41 AM

Heheh.. try opening the skate on a Kinoton PK60 after a 4k has been burning on it for 30 mins without water cooling. OUCH!

Actually, I've burned myself once on one of our 3k houses and found the tension rails melted. This was after a lamp had been changed out with a new one. Someone forgot to turn the amperage down and defocus the lamp a bit after they replaced it. *whistles innocently* [Shrug]

Oh and about de-ionoized water. It has the best thermal properties and doesn't leave desposits. I use it in my water cooled CPU cooler that's sitting right next to me. All Copper water block and radiator. However, do not use de-ionized water without a coolent additive w/anti-corrosive compounds in it. Any automotive coolent will work as long as you thin it out. It don't take much in a small PC water cooled system but on a apature cooler I would think a bit more would be applicable.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-15-2005 09:09 AM

quote: Alan Dallas
Oh and about de-ionoized water. It has the best thermal properties and doesn't leave desposits. I

Thats why its standard for use in extremely high power transmitters. No deposits or crud and most of those high power Klystrons actually get returned to the factury and rebuilt for use again.... you can't leave any deposits in them or you won't get any credit for the dud, just another bill for about $30,0000 for a unusable dud!

Gord,

The TTU-100 I worked with had ALL copper plumbing, and yes there was an additive in use but I couldn't tell you what the heck it was, it came from RCA.

Mark

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-15-2005 10:19 AM

OK, help me out. Is there ionized distilled water and deionized water? We just buy distilled water from the supermarket, and add a product called WaterWetter which is an automotive product used to increase heat transfer in the water cooling system -- it also stops corrosion and the gunk buildup.

BUT what Gordon said is just a wee bit scary for me -- I possibly am using deionized water which will eat away metal parts [Eek!]

When I buy water and it just says Distilled Water, how can I tell if it is the kind that is gonna eat away my projectors?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-15-2005 11:27 AM

Mark when cooling the 15K lamp the water is deionized to make it non conductive and all the additives I know of do create some leakage current

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-15-2005 11:41 AM

quote: Gordon McLeod
all the additives I know of do create some leakage current

Donno Gord, but if your cars cooling system exhibits more than about a volt or two of current leakage(measured fomr ground to the center of the fluid under the radiator cap with a dmm) any alumnium components in that cooling system will desintegrate pretty quiclky, so antifreeze in general has to be pretty void of that problem. The Klystrons water jacket was alot differnt from todays 15k lamps and was also all copper. Copper was used because conducts heat the best......

I suspect this is one of the advantages of the Kinoton additive which is so expensive and it might just be the same stuff thats used in transmitters.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-15-2005 08:41 PM

The leakage current mentioned isn't from an electrochemical potential. Gord is right that water cooled xenon lamps require distilled water plus constant processing through a deionizing filter to keep the water conductivity as low as possible. The water circulates through both lamp electrodes in a relatively short bit of plumbing. High conductivity water - loaded with ions scavenged from the pump and plumbing - causes a leakage current through the water during lamp ignition. A deionising filter that's used up allows the water to "short out" the ignitor and the lamp becomes progressively harder to strike as ions build up.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-16-2005 01:33 PM

Pure water has very few conductive ions. Even slight impurities add ions, that mostly can be removed by deionization:

http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_05.htm

quote:
Familiar tap water or river water contains various substances. So, it is not actually pure water (). Of course, tap water is fine for household use. For scientific research or industrial engineering, however, we sometimes need highly pure water.

As we try to make pure water by gradually removing electrolytes, its conductivity gradually decreases. So, if all electrolytes are removed, will its conductivity become zero? No. Why? Because an infinitesimal part of the molecules of water--only about one in 500 million--is ionized as hydrogen ions () and hydroxide ions (). Theoretically, at this point, the conductivity becomes 0.0548 µS/cm at 25 °C.

The conductivity of water used in the production of VLSIs in the semiconductor industry is below 0.06 µS/cm-- that's water of very high purity indeed. Such water is referred to as ultrapure water. Without going to such an ultrapure level, conductivity of water can be lowered to below 1 µS/cm through a process of deionization. Such water is called ion-exchanged water or deionized water. When we talk about pure water, we refer to water of this level of purity. When water comes in contact with air, carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, causing its conductivity to rise by about 1 µS/cm. This does affect the conductivity of pure water.

http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_03.htm
http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_02.htm

quote:
Thus, resistivity becomes an index of difficulty of flow of electric current. And the reciprocal of resistivity (1/resistivity) is conductivity. So, conductivity becomes an index of ease of flow of electric current. Its unit is written S/cm, meaning siemens per centimeter. Also, 1/1000 S/cm is a called millisiemens per centimeter, and 1/1000 of a millisiemens per centimeter is a microsiemens per centimeter.

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