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Author Topic: Who has had a fire somewhere in their projector? -> OT: Voltage around the world Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 07-01-2005 02:26 AM                  I agree 100% with Rick... By your own statements, its apparent you were over-your-head and should have called in a qualified maintenance tech to do the repair. Not only did you endanger yourself, but you also put at risk the facility, the patrons, and cost the company $$$ cuz of your inexperience. Sorry to be so blunt, but one of my pet peeves is those that think they know what they are doing but in reality do not. The fact that you were unsure of the diode polarity and your lack of using a VOM to verify the correct polarity points to your inexperience. Please note all yous: Calm your feathers as I'm NOT "Picking" on anyone... Just stating the fact that there are many people that attempt to "fix" things that they REALLY have not the expertise for the job. I sincerely give Olivia credit for her post and hopefully ALL will learn from this as to when to call in more experienced people when the problem is beyond them.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-01-2005 02:56 AM                     Good ol' Mr.Lane, Olivia's tech. He's actually an excellent tech to have for her district being under Mr.Hector, her operational D.M. But REG keeps their techs busy and sometimes, they have to be assigned to other districts on a temporary basis to help out whereever they are needed. Yes, if Olivia is level 4 qualified, she has been trained well. For this level is the highest level to gain for use for in-house technical applications, and it takes quite a bit of learning, studying, determination and training to gain level 4 with REG. Granted, I even get turned around with diodes for the Christie recifier bank at times for not paying attention to the diode symbol for current direction, but it's unfortunate that the ones installed in her diode bank got switched around, but give her massive credit for finding out the problem and correcting it herself. Course, putting diodes in those Strong 61000 reactance recifiers is quite the pain to do, and that's just a simple, single phase bridge diode setup. Olivia's tech is a very good friend of mine, and we have quite the conversations about techinical topics-almost like brothers sharing the same topics pertaining to the technical world. If I stayed with REG when the EDW/UA takeover took place in 2002, I would have been that tech that she would have called. But family health situations kept me closer to home thus had to make the sacrifice and leave REG and seek other companies to work for that was closer to home. -Monte [ 07-01-2005, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 07-01-2005 03:13 AM                     I have never changed a diode.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 07-01-2005 03:15 AM                  I can help you with that, Adam...  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-01-2005 04:46 AM                     Adam, I thought you once worked for Cinemark? That's impossible, as it is (or at least was) mandatory training before you could run the booth on your own.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 07-01-2005 04:58 AM                     I've had my fair share of fires, though not in projectors. Mother set fire to kitchen (twice), chip pan cuaght fire, ceiling had polystyrene tiles; not a good idea, the smoke is incredible. Third fire was in a corridor at work; somebody set fire to a plastic dustbin, again loads of thick black smoke. The last one was a girl in a chemistry lab where I had been sent to take some photographs. She spilt a beaker full of solvent on her clothes, and then as she jumped back, put her sleeve into a Bunsen burner flame. Fortunately we managed to put the flames out very quickly, and it was only the solvent that was burning, and not her. All of this was in just a few years in the early '80s. Thankfully I've had no more fires to deal with since then.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 07:52 AM                     quote: Emma Tomiak Just curious; is it unusual for day to day operators to do things like change diodes? Do large chains (and even independent theatres) usually call a technician to do this? Emma, Of course they call a tech.....at least out here they do. Chains like Regal having employees do this and having just one tech cover that large an area... no matter how good he is..... has played a big part in the downfall of quality in modern cinema. If its an emergency thats far away I will also talk somene through it over the phone with them acting as my hands. But the theatre MUST have a VOM available ... if they don't then they wait till we arrive. Overall I've yet to be impressed by any Regal location... or AMC, carmike(the worst!), Cineplex, and so on and this is NOT a reflection on Olivia or her talents.... goes right back to the top. There is always very little of any quality to be found behind the glitz of the lights in large national chain. Independents in large citys are always the better place to go see a film as they put forth alot of extra effort to compete with the nationals, indeed some do alot better at the B.O. as a result. Mark Adam, Call me and you can be my "hands" for a diode change out. MArk  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 08:15 AM                        I've never changed a diode, either, though I'd have no problem changing Sil-Tubes on old-style rectifiers (they screw in like lightbulbs and are near-impossible to install improperly). No one has shown me how to work on rectifiers and the ones that I have used with are reliable enough that it hasn't been a problem (and most booths don't have spare diodes, anyway). I would only work on this stuff if I had a technician I trusted on the phone to talk me through it. I'd like to learn how to do rectifier work safely, but, so far, haven't had the opportunity. As for equipment catching fire: I've never had it happen personally (save for a threading lamp cord with deteriorating insulation), but I've heard of instances where smoke came from the following items: AW3 platter transformer, Christie rectifier, Strong rectifier, Simplex threading lamp transformer, and maybe other stuff.  |  IP: Logged Jason Burroughs Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 654 From: Allen, TX Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 10:06 AM                     At Cinemark locations, particularly those with CFS consoles, its not uncommon for us lowly humble operator scum to change diodes. BTW, its not that difficult to change diodes, and there's no reason that theater staff shouldn't be trained and be able to change diodes. Its not that difficult. The need for "formal eletrical theory training" is complete BS. Olivia made a mistake, and has owned up to it. Those that hold firm to the idea that she shouldn't have changed it, and waited for her tech, need to get their heads out of their collective asses.  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-01-2005 10:21 AM                     As I indicated Olivia, it was not my intention to offend you in any way, but if you've been trained as you say you have, you must know that there can be some pretty hazardous stuff in the booth. I've been doing this for a while now, and even if I was sure the power was off, wouldn't think of sticking my hands into a rectifier without confirming there was no power with a meter. I've seen broken bleed resistors on the capacitors, which mean that there is still the chance of getting zapped even if the unit has been off overnight! And as Michael said, you can't always rely on the symbols on the diodes. I have seen at least two batches of IR 70HF60 diodes mislabeled from the factory over the years. Always use a meter. You said yourself that you spent an hour troubleshooting it, and I simply don't see how you, or anyone for that matter, could troubleshoot a powersupply without a meter and the knowledge on how to use it. Again, sorry if I offended you, but I've seen far too many times where someone who has had some "training" cause more trouble than you could imagine. I have no idea what "level four" means - things are different here - for all I know you could be more qualified than me! But I feel that the training for changing diodes should involve more than simply knowing HOW to change them. The main thing is, of course, that you learned from this.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-01-2005 11:24 AM                        I get emergency calls via phone from a wide variety of people. My concern for you is the same as with my own customers: 1. Can I be certain that this person will be POSITIVELY get ALL OF the power off. 2. Is this a rectifier design that allows EASY access to the diodes? 3. Is a customer repair likely to be permanent? Of am I going to have to go anyway? Of course this requires a bit of judgement on my behalf. In other words: Can I be certain that the customer will be safe and sure? That is the final test. Louis  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 12:10 PM                     Yes, it is quite easy to catch a projector on fire (and a few other nasty things) if you mess up changing the diodes. I have seen the results. I've seen a CFS lamphouse blow its guts when somebody frigged up the diodes, too. The answer is very simple: If you haven't been SPECIFICALLY SHOWN how to change diodes, DON'T DO IT!! Not only can you catch a projector on fire, blow up a lamp and/or damage a projector beyond repair, but you can GET KILLED if you don't take certain safety precautions! (e.g.: Discharge capacitors! The jolt is enough to potentially stop your heart!) If somebody in the know (i.e.: Your technician.) teaches you how, then signs off to give you permission, go ahead and change the diodes. If not... Don't F*** with it!!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-01-2005 04:23 PM                        Just as an aside, I can't help thinking that the title of this thread would have got some rather different responses if it had been written before 1950. Thankfully, the only fires of that sort I've ever experienced have been ones I've started myself, involving elements which have decomposed well beyond the point at which they can be viewed or printed. They've all been out in the car park with no other combustible material within at least 20 yards. My excuse for starting them is that once nitrate has started to go sticky, it's probably so volatile that the sooner it has been destroyed the better. On the experience issue, I think it's worth pointing out that the only way someone goes from being inexperienced to experienced is by doing the job and thereby getting the experience. And no-one I've ever known, me included, has ever got experience of anything without making the odd mistake.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 06:54 PM                     quote: I've seen broken bleed resistors on the capacitors, which mean that there is still the chance of getting zapped even if the unit has been off overnight! Rick, Excellent point! An example of that happened to me just this week..... In the old 6280005R switching rectifiers from Strong which I repair quite a few of there is a 12K 25 watt bleeder resistor located right next to the two large blue capacitors to discharge them over about a 10 minuite time period. HOWEVER..... When the main 16A euro type fuse blows there is a bank of smaller capacitors located on the main PCB that are essentially disconnected from the one and only bleeder. This is an extremely dangerous situation whose voltage, AS HIGH AS 350 VOLTS DC is present at the outer contact of the fuse holder... remains there a VERY LONG TIME, ALMOST INDEFINATELY and easily touchable by anyone. There is quite possibly ENOUGH ENERGY STORED TO STOP SOMEONES HEART . THOSE CAPS ON THE BOARD DID NOT DISCHARGE EVEN AFTER A WEEKS TIME .... so one can wait the stated 20 minuites or a week before inserting a new fuse only to have that new fuse also blow at a loss of 8 bucks. I talked to Stong about this today and the response was "I'm not surprised there isn't a bleeder". Yes, this is a version one or two rectifier from 1990 and I can't really complain about that comment... its difficult for a manufacturer to remember that far back about every trivial little thing and they mentioned "that I can install one". So what I did was to install a 100K 20 watt bleeder resistor for the bank of caps on the main board, located it right next to the main bleeder for convenience. This cost me about 2 bucks and 15 min of time to accomplish(not counting removing the 1 pound of hardware securing the main cover). This way both sets of caps are discharged well within the 20 minuite time it says to wait before removing-installing a fuse. A new fuse can then be safely installed with it blowing. Just thought I'd pass this one along...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Alexander Smith Expert Film Handler Posts: 128 From: Walney Island, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria. Registered: Jun 2003 posted 07-01-2005 07:08 PM                     While I've never had any need or desire to change diodes on rectifiers, I have had to extinguish a small fire in the base of a Strong Highlight II console where the rectifier sits. I doubt we'll ever know the real cause of the problem but it's likely one of clamps for the the high current leads to the lamp became loose, resistance increases, gets hotter and sets the cable insulation on fire. Result is the need to replace that cable, which only comes as a complete ass'y to the anode connection stud. This was last year and we're still waiting for the part. Our technician made the best job he could of cutting back the cable, until he had reached a (relatively) undamaged section to clamp in to the replacement PSU. It has become a running joke with myself and the UK agent we use to buy Strong parts from about this cable... :-) Alex.  |  IP: Logged

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