Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Who has had a fire somewhere in their projector? -> OT: Voltage around the world

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Topic: Who has had a fire somewhere in their projector? -> OT: Voltage around the world

Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 07-12-2005 09:58 AM

I know several people (all old Union guys) that had fires in the projectors. These were nitrate fires in the projector heads back in the late 1940's.

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Bob Koch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 183
From: williams ca
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 07-12-2005 12:39 PM

Many years ago in the Paramount Theatre in Provo Utah the projectionist was killed in a film fire because there was no door from the adjacent generator room to the auditorium. This certainly got peoples attention and many doors were cut so the projection "suite" had doors at both ends.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-12-2005 01:20 PM

I guess I wasn't clear in my question...if all of the diodes were swapped (I read in your post where a couple were). The question goes more to the electronics aspect of the whole thing and why a decent working knowledge of how a rectifier works is important to working inside it...including changing diodes.

I think you will find that most were disapproving of the company's policy and method more than you doing what the company expected you (a level-4) to do.

BTW...no fires in the equipment in my career thus far. I do recall being paged back in my K-B days because smoke was pouring out of the pedestal. Turns out the framing lamp circuit got a short in a Simplex and the transformer was burning up...that is about it.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-12-2005 05:48 PM

quote: Bob Koch
Many years ago in the Paramount Theatre in Provo Utah the projectionist was killed in a film fire because there was no door from the adjacent generator room to the auditorium. This certainly got peoples attention and many doors were cut so the projection "suite" had doors at both ends.

Bob,
i wish you'd pop in more often with interesting info like this.... I was not aware of that occcurance at the Paramount.... which is gone now anyway. Do you have any time frame on this? There are still too many booths in existance with just one way in/out. I've been in at least four in the lkast severala days in Montana.

Mark

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Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 07-12-2005 10:43 PM

I’ve done PCB assembly work not in the cinema but for a small security company around 20 years ago, that would make me old, hehehe, anyway Olivia, you did good there’s no shame and we do learn from mistakes, I remember the cake plate and that motor mechanism under the arm, will as I was taking the feeder out or “the brain” as “UCI” called it the dame thing got stuck at a 45º angle and knackered the feeder arm up big time, and I was only a young trainee projectionist at the time this was around 16 years ago £180 pounds worth the chief projectionist was screaming, I saw it as a few pounds it was just one part of a whole, that needed a Phillips screwdriver and a few minutes, but oh no he wasn’t having this and the next following week he laid me off totally unfair and I was picking things up, anyway I’ve had a few dead end jobs around and the last time was in the field was with Warner Village cinemas UK at the Bristol site Cribbs causeway, something like that, and add to jack it in due to accommodation needs, gutted totally mega gutted.

So don’t let anyone tell you your no good for this profession, you did the good, keep it up this is just not a man’s field as well, all should be given equal opportunities.

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John Hegel
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 166
From: Lake Mills, Iowa
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 07-13-2005 12:04 AM

Is there such a thing as a 480 volt rectifer, or is everything in the normal projection booth 208?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-13-2005 01:59 AM

Yes Mark, I do remember hearing about the fire up at the Paramount in Provo (and with the Unita next door-which wasn't touched by this..) and killing the operator due to a "suicide booth" situation-one entrance only booth.

The worst "suicide" booth was the old UTAH III (Studio) on Main St in SLC. One had to go through a side door in the lobby, walk down a narrow hallway, up a "LADDER", and at the top of the landing was a walkway back to the booth - a solid concrete shell of a booth. Film was hauled up to the booth by a dumbwaiter with an entrance door out front.

Place had Enarcs with Brenkhert Model 80 doubleshutters and 6k reels. And was it HOT up there only with a small window that was over the marquee...(guess that was the 'escape' hatch...)

I heard about all of this back in the mid 70's when I was getting ready to join the IA when I was living down in SLC at the time.

-Monte

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-13-2005 03:25 AM

Hi Olivia

I am unfamiliar with your company or its training program, but after reading through this thread, I do think that you are unqualified to perform this type of work. But I do commend your willingness to learn, and your maturity regarding your willingness to discuss your experience. I know many people who would have preferred to "cover-up" such an incident to protect their egos and avoid embarrassment.

Anyhow, everyone has discussed replacing diodes and confirming polarity, but no one has realyy discussed...INSPECTION....

Inspection (visual) comes from both education and experience. So, besides replacing a diode, do you know how to visually look over a system for any suspicious/potential problem areas?

For example, I will repeat a story that happened to me, that I wrote about in another thread:

A theatre at which I was a projectionist had a Christie rectifier crap out. Two "upper level booth managers", both with zero electircal knowledge, attempted to repair said rectifier by swapping out numerous igniter boxes with no improved result.

I put my nose into the situation, preformed a quick visual inspection, and found that the contactor relay fried, taking a lot of wiring with it.

Now, despite the fact that these two yahoos were my immediate superiors, I am much older than them, with quite a bit of experience behind me. So I did preceed to give them a parental chewing out, with the intent of getting the message across that randomly playing with electricity can be dangerous to ones health!

Believe it or not, these two yahoos had no clue as to what a contactor relay is, and were unaware that there was a spare in the parts cabinet.

Well, I conducted the needed repairs, including making up new wires and inspecting all the diodes.

But there was this one wire that tested good via the multi-meter, but my gut instinct said that it was bad. But I ignored my gut instinct.

About a week later, the rectifier started acting up again, and these two yahoos tried to snicker at "know-it-all Kutler". Well, this time I listned to my instinct and replaced the suspicious wire during intermission. The problem was solved.

This is just one kind of example where experience and electircal knowledge comes into play.

And speaking of potential fires, I know of one major cinema chain that does not have any fire extinguishers or first aid equipment in their booths.

K.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 07-13-2005 05:46 AM

quote: Will Kutler
I know of one major cinema chain that does not have any fire extinguishers or first aid equipment in their booths.

That's surely just asking for a lawsuit if someone gets hurt in an accident.

That having been said, there are some situations in which it's just as dangerous to administer first aid if you haven't been trained to do so as it is frig around with electricity. Doing the wrong thing can make some situations a lot worse (for example, continuing to perform CPR on someone who has started to breathe again could kill them).

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-13-2005 05:58 AM

quote: Will Kutler
I know of one major cinema chain that does not have any fire extinguishers or first aid equipment in their booths.

I cannot imagine ANY place in the US where the local building department would signoff a "Certificate Of Occupancy" without ALL the safety and fire emergency requirements met and operational. Even with payoffs to inspectors to "overlook" minor non-compliant things, safety was NEVER compromised in ALL the installations I did worldwide. All were VERY strict about that.

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James Bjarnason
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 07-13-2005 05:59 AM

To think that a major chain somewhere has no fire extinguishers in their booths! In British Columbia we have to have one every 75ft, unless there are sprinklers.

At my theatre, the local fire department's suppression crew comes by at least once every 1 - 2 months to check things out. This is on top of the Fire Inspector's visit about every 6 - 8 months. They make sure all of our extinguishers have been checked and certified. All of the exit lights are working. They even check to make sure we have a 'Fire Plan' in place for our staff. Usually the only things that come up from these inspections is to make sure both light bulbs in an exit sign are working. I don't mind it at all.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-13-2005 07:31 AM

In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the fire extinguisher is supposed to be located _outside_ the door to the booth. I don't know why that is or if the law makes it illegal to also have an extinguisher inside the booth, but that's one of the questions on the projectionist license test.

Some towns have additional fire-safety codes (e.g. one might require that a "fire exit" trailer be shown before the film).

I assume that any requirements for first-aid equipment would come from OSHA (a well-intentioned but overbearing federal agency) and not local fire laws.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-13-2005 01:47 PM

quote: Will Kutler
"....Two "upper level booth managers", both with zero electircal knowledge, attempted to repair said rectifier by swapping out numerous igniter boxes with no improved result. .."

Like when I work at a 21 complex, two "floor managers" had to change out a igniter (the good ol' CHR IGM-15-B) ,but wasn't paying attention to the wire configuration on top of the igniter. They didn't pay attention to the last two wires to the right that cross. They uncrossed them when they attached the wires to the terminals. This is like keeping the "start" button in and keeping the igniter on at all times. SMOKED that igniter real good.

Luckilly, when I came on shift, replaced that igniter with another one and found out what they did, they got a nice huge heinie ripping from the main manager for doing something that they weren't qualified to do.

KEEP IDIOTS out of my booth!

-monte

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-13-2005 10:31 PM

"Is there such a thing as a 480 volt rectifer, or is everything in the normal projection booth 208?"
Yes in Europe and any other country that the pahse to neutal is 240 the phase to phase is in the 480 range depending on other factors

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John Hegel
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 166
From: Lake Mills, Iowa
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 07-13-2005 11:54 PM

I was wondering if the "level 4" people are also allowed to work on equipment that has a 277/480 volt service. If that is the case OSHA should be all over those people.

110/208 stuff is bad enough, but if they are telling people to stick there hands into 480 volt stuff without the proper personal protective equipment (and a license) that company is asking for trouble.

I hate to disagree Gordon, but all of America is 220 single phase, 208 three phase, 480 three phase... I don't remember the next couple of steps from there since i mostly only work with 208 and 480 volt stuff.

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