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Topic: The "perfect" threading procedure

Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 02-20-2006 12:09 AM

I see what looks like a crack developing in the rubber damping roller in the sound gate. Time to get that replaced.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-20-2006 12:13 AM

hmmm, our jj doesn't have that black roller under the intermittent either. when was that introduced (and why)? or has it been removed from our machine? i'll have to have a closer look at it.

carl

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-20-2006 12:20 AM

Thx Darryl..got a few of them on order for replacment - just waiting for them to arrive, plus some other parts to keep these 1050's tickin' away.. -Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-20-2006 06:52 AM

The Black stabilizing roller has been a feature of every JJ I've come across...even really old ones. If there ever was a machine without it, it would be a very early version.

It is used to sabilize the lower loop so it doesn't flap about wildly.

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 02-20-2006 09:00 AM

I find you never stop learning in this game. Someone is always making new discoveries even with old machines.

However I am still amazed that thousands of projectors can be made all exactly the same in every way , yet some perform better than others.

Like Monte I have threaded up as per the book and as per how I think it looks and sounds better , but out of 3 identical machines (vic 5) all threaded up exactly the same all exactly the same age with same hours one purrs like a cat the other 2 clatter like a wheat harvester.

I have studied them all with a microscope and I can not explain why the good one is good and the others are not .

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-20-2006 09:34 AM

Intermittent assemply and shutter assemply. The big issue with the V5 babies is that if you don't keep the intermittent assemply oiled to the required level, it's going to start clicking and cracking like a devil! Also the grease inside the shutter assemply is good to check out (try and use the Cinemeccanica oils and grease, they DO make a difference!). Have you tried the projectors without a film running? Do they sound reasonably the same? If yes then that means your gate assemplies might need reconditioning. If they sound the same, try changing the gate assemply with one of the louder machines and see if it performs better.
D

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-20-2006 10:56 AM

quote: Steve Guttag
With the slap rails came the slot in the front of the projector for the 70mm film to exit and then go around the outside of the optical soundhead (R3) wich is 35mm only.

Neither the route through the soundhead or around the outside was very good. The route around the outside involved some spharp curves for tape splices to find toeir way around... not sucessfully sometimes! The route through was the better if the tech removed all the 35mm crap before running 70mm.

Because of some platters inability to have steady and even wind torque many a 70mm print was ruined in Chicago(and suburban) booths and others because of the optical stuff being left in place as well as loops being made too large on both the upper and lower loops... the typical black base scratches on the upper left and right corners and black scratches from the tip of the slit lens were all to common.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-20-2006 12:04 PM

Mark,

I must admit, I was able to get the two machines at the Uptown to not scratch any film, 35 or 70mm without removing the other's parts...with the exception of the upper pad roller in the projector head...those were double 70mm for 70mm runs.

The 70mm skate in the R50 sound head often had to be properly adjusted if not machined a little bit to have the 70mm avoid hitting things, including the middle of the skate itself.

For those that run 35mm film OVER the RO-207 stabilizing roller, be warned, if it has worn at all, and you are in a high-humidity climate, the film WILL curl into the middle of the roller since the raised portion of the roller is very small for 35mm. When it doubt, change the roller to a fresh one. If the middle of the roller ever looks like it is "polished" then you have been rubbing the film on it and are abraiding the image.

Personally, I prefer the R50 with the 70mm film slipping through the soundhead. Kelmar makes a suitable basement reader too that allows for the 70mm to slip through still.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-20-2006 12:36 PM

Agreed, I've never had any scratching problem not removing the 35mm parts. About the only place that requires an exacting loop size is the upper loop if the 35mm pad roller isn't removed, but I do normally remove just that one piece. Everything else, the 70mm glides on past without damage.

BTW the R50 skate is no longer available! I need one. Anyone have one laying around?

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 02-20-2006 02:48 PM

I have never seen 70mm damage in a CENTURY soundhead; however, the Cinecitta (India) did have this problem. We just removed the three screws that held the comnplete dancer assembly in and stored the complete dancer assembly until 70mm was past.. This means that alignment was not not required when going back to 35mm. The end of the sound lens slightly touched the 70mm film. Louis

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-20-2006 03:25 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I must admit, I was able to get the two machines at the Uptown to not scratch any film, 35 or 70mm without removing the other's parts.

Guys... of course it can work if operated properly! You are professionals... how many of those are out there....really? There were just a few out of over 400 members in Local 110 back in those days. Most were just button pushers... folks with other realife "daytime jobs" most were not technically minded, most NEVER cleaned out the machines they ran!

Mark

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Sean R. Custer
Film Handler

Posts: 35
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 02-20-2006 04:34 PM

I'm glad someone has corroborated this phenomenon. In a booth with 14 Simplex 1050's I could alaways make a b-line for a signigicant misthread from across the booth as soon as I entered the door. And for a while there were a couple of us who could tell who had threaded the set that was running just by the sound of the machines...
The straight-gate xl's though, are really subjective. More difficult to get that humm and guiet splice... And it's not hard to hear our platters over the projectors, they're AW-2's. But even they are pretty smooth. (starts 2:30pm show) oops, spoke too soon, there goes a drive motor bearing.
Happy to be found to be demonstrably less paranoid-schizophrenic,
SRC

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-21-2006 03:32 AM

quote: Steve Guttag
The Black stabilizing roller has been a feature of every JJ I've come across...even really old ones. If there ever was a machine without it, it would be a very early version.

on further inspection, it's apparent our jj used to have this, but not any more. we tend to make the lower loop quite small though. i could see it being useful with a larger loop.

carl

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Eric Robinson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 538
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-23-2006 01:18 AM

I have learned a lot from this topic. If possible I am interested in learning more about the following two issues:

1) What technique or equipment can you use to satisfy the following requirement?

quote: Frank Angel
The general rule-of-thumb is that you need to set lip-sync to happen at about 1/3rd back from the screen, not AT the screen.

2) I have seen the diamonds on academy leader but am not sure of the purpose. Could I hear a brief explanation.

quote: Steve Guttag
Note too, the "Academy" leader has that diamond throughout...you can thread up on just about any number and look for the frame with the diamond to see where you are.

ERIC

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-23-2006 02:38 AM

quote:
I am interested in learning more about the following two issues:

1- no equipment..just take a frame away from your threading procedure to where you're 20 frame count from aperture to soundhead. Sound travels a lot slower than light, thus you want to advance the sound to picture sync to this..

2- diamond marking - see my second pict..see where the diamond is straight across the reader assembly. this is the actual 21 frame count from picture start in the aperture to sound start. You frame on any number on that academy leader in the aperture, and that diamond should be straight across the reader - if you threaded correctly. Screening rooms, with such small viewing venues probably threaded the 21 frame count procedure since the delay wasn't necessary..

This was set up back in the mid 30's as the Academy Standard Leader that began with each reel ..

..since back then, there were actual projectionists in the booth running changeover machines and we would make the BEST changeovers that could be had.

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