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Author Topic: The "perfect" threading procedure Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-23-2006 02:51 AM                        1. no, that's backwards. subtract a frame so you're at a 20 frame... ok, never mind, monte just edited his post. 2. our threading leaders have the diamond at 20 frames, not 21. maybe it's different for leaders that come on prints?  |  IP: Logged Chad M Calpito Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 04-23-2006 03:00 AM                        Thanks for the input and pics, Monte. I, too, use the Simplex 35 models. Personally, I like the Simplex 35 projectors. Anyway, I thread them just like you do, except for maybe a minor variation, but, my threading is the same. I've also tried the Christie Projectors, but, could not stand them. Well, I better not get off topic. Anyway, thanks for the pics and tips, Monte. I learn something new everyday.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2006 05:30 PM                     The diamond is indeed at 20-frames not 21 to inherently have one have a 1/2-1 frame advance on the sound.  |  IP: Logged Nathan Fettes Film Handler Posts: 11 From: kalamazoo, MI, USA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 04-23-2006 09:33 PM                     It is kind of sweet that this comes up the same time my theater is trying to convert all of us to the thread down up procedure. We have all strong equipment and the old people thread gate first then around that. The new people thread bottom up as required by our “policy.” Then we get an email that we all have to thread bottom up. All of us that thread gate first do the same thing. First, we thread entire platter (all Strong equipment.) Then we pull film so the tension mechanism on the platter keeps tension. Then we thread the gate first.. Before threading, the intermittent is turned so it has just advanced and the same length of loops will always be consistent. This will insure the leader never touches the ground due to the platter tension. Is this wrong to thread middle out? I have been condemned from my corporate office because they made the “my way or the highway” point of view. We train our entire new projectionist staff the bottom up (strong system) threading. The fact is, our chain has many different projectors and they use the bottom up technique as the only way regardless of the projectors. If we get caught doing other, I can get written up. I have always threaded gate first and now I can get fired for this only because it is the “policy.” The gate first technique I use never lets the leader touch the ground and it is faster for me but I can not get it unless I try to grandfather clause it in. Should I just learn a new technique that will double or triple my threading time or is this just as good as the way they recommend, bottom up. We have all strong equipment, platters and projector heads. The way I thread is as follows: 1. Thread entire platter, ignoring projector, besides top and bottom rollers 2. Turn the motor so the intermittent just turns 3. Pull the film so the film has tension from the platter 4. Thread the gate, then the top loop and DTS unit. 5. I put my finger to the base of the projector for the bottom loop and when I close the pad, it moves so the film is not hitting the wall or putting tension on the pad. 6. Then I thread the five star sound head and failsafe. Just interested if this is acceptable. This will insure the frame distance of the sound head where as other techniques can very by a frame or so. Just wondering, Nathan  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-23-2006 09:36 PM                     Look at the Threading 101 page in the tips section. Yes it will take longer AT FIRST, but once you master the bottom up threading, you will be able to do it faster and with more accuracy than starting at the gate or "threading down". It is the professional way to thread the projector.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-23-2006 11:16 PM                     quote: 2. Turn the motor so the intermittent just turns ..just turns??? I though you supposed to turn the motor's flywheel to where the sprocket just stops turning - you're locking up the intermittent sprocket. Lacing up a Simplex, reverse style, is quite easy. Here are some picts to do it below: 1-You bring up the film to the lower sprocket and lock the pad roller. 2-Then, the film over the scanner drum and lock down the lateral guide roller. 3-Then, you lock the film over the middle constant speed sprocket with the frameline at the "12:00 position" Then, you make your frame set in the aperture and with this, the lower loop is automatically set. Then, do your upper loop and you're all done. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Nathan Fettes Film Handler Posts: 11 From: kalamazoo, MI, USA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 04-24-2006 12:06 AM                     Sorry, when I say just turns I mean turn the motor flywheel until the intermittent is just done turning like you said. I will try the 12 o' clock position at the sprocket like you have suggested. Will this set up insure the tension roller for the sound head is at the correct position or is this able to be varied as long as there is tension for the scanner drum? I still do not see how it is not better or worse to thread the gate first. It is the only part that moves at the intermittent bases. I can thread the entire projector in less the 20 seconds with my way and the film (leader) NEVER touches the ground. This is due to the tension applied from the platter. I know both methods use the same film placing on the sprockets but I do not see how it is any different to thread bottom or mid first. To be honest I am very bullheaded and I can't see a reason to change my threading pattern because I still keep the film from touching the ground and the loops are always the right size. The intermittent is the only part that moves at a 1 - 4 basis and I think it should be threaded first because of this. The other parts are at a constant motor basis and as long as the film NEVER touches the floor it should be fine. I am not trying to prove it is better just that it is a legitimate threading technique. But if you guys say it is better I had better start practicing. It is just my techs give the only reason as, "It is how we do it so you have to." I like to have a reason for things other then my way or the highway. I want to try to grandfather clause this into our theater but they are as bull headed as me. As long as the leader never touches the floor and the projector is threaded correctly I don't see a problem. Regardless, I will work on the suggestion you mentioned for the next few shifts.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-24-2006 02:01 AM                     Monte has the right idea, but no two projector models (and even often vintages) are exactly the same. Just thread one machine up with perfect loops, no matter what it takes to achieve threading it this one time. Now slowly advance the motor until the intermittent has just finished it's pulldown. NOW note where the framelines are on the last two sprockets...voila, there's your guidelines for threading bottom up at your theater. 20 seconds? Bah! Seriously, I have witnesses that can attest to me threading a machine in less than 5 flawlessly every time. The only way to achieve that kind of speed with accuracy is bottom up though.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-24-2006 04:18 AM                     There really shouldn't be a race in lacing (granted, we had "lace races" in the past to see who's fastest and the most accurate - just for fun..) but, if one is running a 20 googooplex plus of an operation, the operator should be paying attention to the showdrop times so that the operator can get right over to that house that drops and lace with time and accuracy. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Chad M Calpito Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 04-24-2006 11:03 AM                        When I worked at an 18-plex theatre with two different booths on two levels, there were times I had to thread and start all 18 projectors by myself, literally. Accuracy was (and, of course, still is important, though I had to work quickly. Going between the two booths via an elevator is no easy task when I have movies that start at the same time between both of the booths. In essence, I think it is better to be accuracte. But, I will say this, I used to do threading races before as well, but, I don't prefer to do it anymore.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-24-2006 11:29 AM                     This thread is going nowhere. Chad, stop being stubborn and just learn how to thread bottom up. It is the professional way to thread and is what your employer is requiring of you. Also, nowhere in this thread has anyone suggested that accuracy should be substituted for speed. Speed however IS important in it's own aspect, as there are days when one person may have to run a complex by himself, and deal with print buildups and deal with equipment breakdowns as well as other unexpected issues (print toss/brain wrap/etc).  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-24-2006 11:33 AM                        Whatever method you use that does not damage film or make it dirty is good. You are working for people who obviously have a lot of time on their hands. (Remember the leader....header....never goes through a projector; in fact we once used non sprocketed film for that purpose.) Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-24-2006 11:49 AM                     Yes Louis but that leader does come into contact with the film that does go through the projector. The dirt will ALWAYS migrate back.  |  IP: Logged Chad M Calpito Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 04-24-2006 04:53 PM                        Sorry if I sounded Stubbourn, Brad. It may not seem like it, but, I'm keeping an open mind. Anyway, I've honestly never heard of threading bottom up before. I do agree that speed is important since I do have to operate 10 film projectors per shift. Please understand that this is the first time I've heard of threading bottom up in this Forum.  |  IP: Logged Eric Robinson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 538 From: Santa Rosa, CA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 04-26-2006 12:26 AM                     quote: Louis Bornwasser (Remember the leader....header....never goes through a projector; in fact we once used non sprocketed film for that purpose.) I thought I knew what I was doing until I read the above quote. Our standard method of practice is to provide enough leader which can run through the projector during startup so that the automation is capable of triggering the electronic changeover. At that point in time, we look at the film running through the projector (house and stage lights are at half down), as soon as we see Green Band at the aperture, we open the manual dowser. We then continue, (not thread related), to watch as patrons come into the theatre. If its a low traffic film, we hit lights down after no more patrons are entering. If its high traffic, we wait until the THX trailer, at the latest, to hit light down. We keep this step purposefully manual to keep the projectionists attentive. Anyway, now that I'm completey off track...it sounds as if we are not supposed to have any leader running through the machine. If this were true; however, this would imply that the beginning of the green band for the first trailer would have its head located at the basement sound head lower feed sprocket??? Gotta throw in the puke icon  |  IP: Logged

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