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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Proper/Improper use of FilmGuard (Page 6)

 
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Author Topic: Proper/Improper use of FilmGuard
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-25-2011 07:05 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With Strong platters it might be a bit more beneficial to mount the cleaner on the projector as the Strong platter provides very little backtension. When mounted on the projector, the gravity and tension safe (if installed) adds more tension providing better application and cleaning.

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Chase Pickett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 142
From: Irving, Texas, USA
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted 03-25-2011 08:03 PM      Profile for Chase Pickett   Email Chase Pickett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, would you happen to know where to get mounting brackets for a kelmar film cleaner to mount it on top of the projector? I would like to try having one mounted there. I do like the added back tension from the film cleaner mounted to the top of the tree, but I am curious to see what mounting on the projector has to offer as well.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-25-2011 10:58 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Chase, Kelmar makes the Kelmar film cleaning brackets. [Razz]

Personally I do not like having the film cleaner mounted on top of the projector. I find it difficult to rewind the media pads. However in Joe's example (assuming the Strong platter has the tension failsafe), it would do a better job cleaning.

Mounting the film cleaner on the takeup side will work, but you really need to start with a new print. If you do that with a dirty print, the dirt and extra tension can scratch it. This is why I always remove the back-tension spring inside Christie's center payout roller. It exerts TOO much tension against the film cleaning media and is completely unnecessary so long as your platter is no more than about 15 feet away from the projector.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-25-2011 11:02 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have used film guard since 2000? or 2001? not sure now but it is wonderful stuff! I highly recommend it. So will have some kind of digital guard in the future?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-26-2011 12:59 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is called the Film-Tech DCS and it was designed to eliminate all of the mess and confusion that is currently plaguing the digital cinema industry.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-26-2011 01:10 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the takeup mounting would be only for new prints or a fresh application on a previously-f-g'd print. since a fresh application streaks the audience will see that otherwise.

anyways, job one is to find out what's going on at the other theater.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-26-2011 02:23 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chase, I could loan you a bracket or two.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-26-2011 11:32 AM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad I did suggest to the owners that when we convert we use your automation system. Not with the remote set up but with us doing the set ups. I don't make those decisions but I pumped your system.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-10-2011 05:16 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
a quick update, with some shitty digi-pix.

i'm fairly certain the payout issues at the next theater were due to dissolved tape residue permeating the pads and getting on the prints (possibly compounded by platter timing issues). one mistake i made was re-using the bits of masking tape on the outside of the f-t media rolls. (any reason these aren't secured with the presumably safe blue tape used to hold the other end of the media to the cores?)

last i heard, the 2 most recent prints received from us were behaving nicely in their new home, though i had only f-g'd them a few days each (using magic tape only) before being told to stop so it's not a great basis for drawing conclusions.

anyways, i've now got a tapeless system for holding media to cores. no, there wasn't, as far as i'm aware, any issue using magic tape. this is just tidier and less hassle, and if the media get rewound too far it's simple to re-secure them. with a razor blade, i scored the cores lengthwise, holding the blade at a bit of an angle to create a grip. it grabs wet or dry media very nicely. time will tell if the grip lessens after many uses.

 -

the mounting holes on the aw3 platter seem to be some sort of insert, not just tapped holes. so i'll have to see if these are available somehow for mounting in the return path. but meanwhile, i jury-rigged a cleaner on the floor after the projector. the transformer is just there for ballast.

 -

i ran the week's first f-g application this way, and moved the cleaner to the normal feed-side position for the second show, during which only the slightest streaking was evident, and only when the screen was practically all-white. so i'm pretty satisfied with that.

incidentally, it seems i had been overthinking the saturation procedure all along. i had been carefully going all around the media roll with the spritzer. i wondered how anyone could do this while it was on the cleaner. turns out you can just spritz repeatedly without repositioning the spray nozzle, and the f-g will spread around the roll, with better results, to boot. who knew? oh, yeah, all of you guys.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-10-2011 09:41 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First, "Horay for Yankee Ingenuity!"

However, you really need to mount that film cleaner on the platter and clean up the floor around your projector. Rigging things up like that is probably doing more harm than good.

As a test, it's probably fine but, for long-term, you are going to need to do it right.

Second, you don't need tape to hold the saturated media onto the film cleaner shafts.

Cut an empty film core in half, across the diameter so you have a piece of plastic shaped like a letter "C." Use this plastic like a clip to hold the media onto the shaft. You won't need tape. You'll avoid the problem of dissolved stickum and you'll lower your consumption of tape.

Put a full, saturated roll onto the payout shaft, thread it through the cleaner and use the clip to hold it onto the takeup shaft. After each run of film, rewind the cleaner. On an average length movie, you will only use half the roll. The other half will be unused and still saturated on the payout.

When the first half of the roll becomes too dirty to use, simply take a knife or a pair of scissors and cut the media at the end of the dirty part (before you rewind it) and pull it off the cleaner. Then, take the head end of the clean part of the roll and clip it back onto the takeup shaft.

Just be sure you have enough saturated media on the payout roll to cover the print that you are running through the cleaner. You don't want to run out of gauze half way through a movie!

Done this way, you use less FilmGuard, you use less media and you do less work. -- The ergophobe's guide to using FilmGuard!

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-10-2011 02:12 PM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
randy, i recall reading about your method of securing the media before. never tried it myself but i couldn't figure out how it allowed the takeup core to be locked/unlocked.

the floor isn't filthy there. that's just where paint has flaked off. every time the floor gets vacuumed that bit of conduit gets shifted around, chipping the paint (which is not the best paint, obviously).

anyways, this is just a proof-of-concept. the aim is to get mounting holes on the takeup side of the platter. it already has mounting holes on the feed side.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-10-2011 02:48 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You put an empty core on the takeup shaft just like normal. But, since the outside diameter of the core on the shaft is larger than the inside diameter of the core you use as a clip, it's going to be a tight, snap-fit.

Rewinding the media is done in just the same way as you always do. You loosen the screw on the takeup shaft and rewind.

I posted pictures about this, some time ago, but I haven't been able to find them. If I can hunt them up, I'll repost the link.

For testing, your setup is all right.

However, I still prefer to have the cleaner mounted on the feed-out side of the platter. The operator doesn't have to kneel down to rewind and thread the film cleaner. I find it's easier to maintain compliance if everything is near eye level.

UPDATE: I found the pictures:

http://www.film-tech.com/uploads/uploads0503/Clips3.jpg

http://www.film-tech.com/uploads/uploads0503/Clips2.jpg

Original thread where they were posted is here:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010030#000006

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-10-2011 06:07 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not liking that film twist going into the cleaner. Also, that might be too much tension.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-11-2011 01:02 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If that is the first pass with fully saturated virgin media pads, then I think it is ok. For subsequent passes though, this is not a good idea. It sounds like that is what his intention is though.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-11-2011 04:35 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
indeed, that is what my intention is.

incidentally, this print, which we've had well over a month, is far cleaner than the 2 prints we got last week, which have not been film-guarded. too bad it's twice been misthreaded over a roller flange!

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