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Author Topic: Century MSC or Simplex Apogee what's the better pick? Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-09-2007 12:18 PM                     Well I do not know about the Strong, Century products but I definately would recomend Kinoton or Cinemeccanica. Anyone you choose will last. Both are Damn good machines and you could get a refurbished Cinemeccanica quite cheap. The only thing that I would recomend if you get a refurbished unit is to replace the gate with the new curved gate design for better picture steadiness. I doubt you will find a second hand or refurbished Kinoton but I don't think the price you have to offer satisfies a Kinoton. If you are thinking about lasting and reliability, I can say for surely and I do feel very very strong about it that the Cinemeccanica is the most reliable projector in the market. Good luck with your choice. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-09-2007 12:24 PM                     whoops..accidental dbl posting  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-09-2007 12:26 PM                     Agree with Demetris - I'd kill to work with CINE V-8's again. I've seen Norelco's, Kinotons and Bauers work and they definitely beat the pants off of the domestic brands hands down.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 05-09-2007 01:16 PM                        I'm with Gordon on the Ash TEC8112 architectural dimmers. I've yet to see one not outlast the building they're installed in. When it comes to cinema installations they'll usually outlast the life of (and get installed in) two or three cinemas.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 03:11 PM                     I absolutely agree on the Ash dimmers. I'd consider using them if they were price competitive with the Kelmars. Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-09-2007 03:27 PM                        I would add to the rant; but.....my wife tells me there is no reason to listen to Rush because she can get that at home for free with no radio. Louis  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 03:28 PM                        On the topic of dimmers, I've had good luck with Ward-Leonard "Vitrohm" rheostats. Plenty are still in daily use 80+ years after being installed. As for stuff that is actually available new, Superior Electric makes a variety of autotransformers, some of which have motorized controls and could (in theory) be connected to an automation system if one wanted to do that (I don't quite see the point of automation in a single-screen house, but whatever...). Don't look at the prices. The Kelmar electronic dimmers work, but my objection to them is that the fade-up rate and fade-down rate are not independently adjustable. Normally, I would prefer that the fade-down rate be about twice the fade-up rate (I like a very slow fade-up), but that isn't possible with the Kelmars.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-09-2007 03:57 PM                     V8, V5 or even the undying V4. Try for a refurbished V5. Perhaps you could get two by paying a bit more. After a look I had at ICECO catalog it seems like the refurbished V5 is at your reach if you can find a dealer or your dealer who can supply you these.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-09-2007 04:31 PM                     Huh? The Kelmar dimmers we use have separate up and down fade rates (we use the Deluxe House light dimmer a bunch...it has High, Mid, Low and OFF as well as a built in Bypass circuit...that is the "Deluxe" part).  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 04:42 PM                        Hmm...I'll have to check. Maybe I'm thinking of something else. Edit: Steve is right (as usual). I must have been thinking about a different product. In any case, I consider separate up/down fade rate controls to be necessary for an electronic dimmer. [ 05-10-2007, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Scott Norwood ]  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-09-2007 05:53 PM                     Scott, The Court Theatre is a single screen with simple automation. The ticket girl pushes the button in the office, the yellow "ready" light goes off and the green "Run" one comes on. Presto! The house lights dim, the curtains begin to open as the studio logo hits the screen. The sound goes from non sync to Dolby SR. At the end of the feature and just as the credits begin, the house lights return to full, after the credits and while the rating is on the screen, the curtains close in readiness for the next audience. (Or to keep the dust from the cleaning crew off the screen) That is what the automation does in this little single screen. And, by the way, we have three stacked Superior Electric autotransformer dimmers with a single motor to operate them. All this from a little Eprad Co-operator and some custom built interfaces. KEN  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 05-09-2007 07:41 PM                        On the topic of dimmers we have three ETC Sensor-family dimmers; ETC-48 racks each with 48 dimmers each. All controlled by a DMX512 signal and computer. This system is so sophisticated that I was told I can dim just one light fixture-I have no clue how and why I would do this. We have probably close to 12 or 13 light fixture families some having up to 10 fixtures each. Also the dimmer system is for the stage lights as well. To address fade up I can have this system fade up slowly over duration of time but it is set for a slow fade up and a moderate fade down by default. I have an unlimited range from almost nothing to full lights it is an amazing system. Probably one of the better things we have besides the QSC amps and Crown processors. There’s a remote dimmer panel in the booth I have up to 8 presets. I do not know how the projection can be tied into this system but I bet it can be done. Found out today that we are getting $11,000.00 because we got a nice donation from a local supporter. So I’m moving up. I used Cinemeccanica V5’s in the past and really liked them, and then I used Century and found to like them as well. And finally I have the Super simplex and I like it too I just have a hell of a time getting the thing to stop ghosting! But I have to say I remember having very stable images with both the V5 and Century. I don’t remember what Century projectors we had but I really liked using them and they had a very steady image. The Super I have now had a fairly steady image but some films were worse then others. After the intermittent problem I have never got it back to having a steady image. The ghosting has always been an issue. Mike  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 08:34 PM                     ETC is excellent stuff and they do make an interface that can allow you to tie into your booth gear if you decide to automate the booth... its known as the A-V interface and I have a picture of one somewhere that I tied into at the Boise Egyptian Theater. I was both the Strand and Colortran area tech for about 5 years and I ran into ETC gear all the time. It pays to have sophisticated dimmer systems like those in special venues and museums. I believe the Imax standard is a 48 channel Strand dimmer rack combined with both wall mounted Premiere Architectural controllers allowing presets and a booth located Dimmer board. The flexibility with DMX-512 based systems is practically limitless. FWIW: Colortran was bought out by Leviton a couple of years before I stopped doing that type of service work and the company by then was basically ruined and the gear was touch and go for reliability. I would not reccomend Colortran to anyone any more. If you still need that Super movement just let me know, I'd be happy to send you one that I know is good this week. The ghosting could be several things but first check your shutter timming and be sure that the adjustabble blade part of the shutter is set properly. If its adjusted near the edge of or right at pulldown then there may be some light bleeding by when the film just starts to move or just before it stops moving. Mark  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 05-10-2007 11:04 AM                        Mark I really need that intermittent. Email me directly and we can talk about it. Because I'm not going to purchase anything new until I get the full amount in the account. This may take several months and I need to keep this supper running. I may need some help with that shutter timing. I played with it for hours one day and got it just right but as soon as I run film for a while or the Frame knob is moved just a little the shutter goes out again. Mike  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-10-2007 12:52 PM                     Michael, If the machine ghosts when you turn the framer be sure the G-3 Framing Slide Arm Assy. that rides on the A-27 intermittent framing sector is moving... it may be stuck. If this cam sticks it will not allow the compensator gears to slide back and forth allowing things to keep in time. The compensator mechanism or as they call it the Shutter Gear Bracket assy. in the manual is the rectangluar block where the shutter drive gears are. This mechanism is shown on page 23(PDF). The G-116 gear is the gear that slides back and forth and advances or retards the shutter timming when you rotate the framer. The Framing Slide Arm Assy., G-3 is shown on page 33(PDF) and all this stuff has to be freely moving and not binding when the framer is turned in order for timming to stay coordinated. Hopefully this will help and not seem too confusing..... Mark  |  IP: Logged

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