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Author Topic: Is there an adaptor for small shaft reel spindles? Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-19-2007 11:03 PM                        Monte Louis once explained it like this to me once. "Most booths today are ran like McDonalds, the Kids treat the projectors like french fry fryers, hit a button walk away and don't return till something breaks, then walk away again!" From what I have heard Kenotons are fine machines but delicate, and need to treated with respect, and by a projectionist who know how to use them, not the kids the fill up most booths. Believe me I know what you are talk about Mark. Like I said Steve has some of the best advice I have seen. And I can't nock the Kenoton projectors because I have never seen one or used one. Mike  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-20-2007 03:51 AM                     Oh, I know where you're coming from, Mike - trust me .. I've ran an Kinoton FP-23 and they are worth their name in gold. (not to drift off-topic here where this should be almost placed in the "you suck bad film handler's" topic...but have to chime in to what was said previous..) It's the new infectious syndrome in the work force called - "McJob" - I have to deal with those 'burger flippers' as well. What makes it REAL BAD is when the mgrs themselves can't have any control over the theatre that they are assigned to since they're just 'puppet mgrs' - a form of operation that the owner wants of his business with a heavy dose of micromanaging mixed in the mire...and still expects a form of booth rules to be followed. And do you think those "burger flippers" are going to listen knowing that the individual mgr of each theatre has no control over them, thus they can get away with murder without punishment outside of a simple write-up that can be repeatedly over and over again till that said mgr is blue in the face wanting to quit and be gone outta that theatre?? Hey Mark...I was just doing a funny with the splicer thing of Steve's whereas I know exactly were you're coming from as well. As Brad once said "pay peanuts and you get monkeys". AND I've actually seen such destruction happen in such a short time with equipment that endured the operations of time and been taken care of in that past. thx all - Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-20-2007 06:55 AM                     Now see...this is a topic who has drifed off topic...it happens. My complaint with what started this current discussion remains...a question was posted and rather than read the question, people just started flushing their minds of what they knew or what they thought they knew. Some of the information might have been relevent had it been a discussion of MUTs or even rewind tables...but completely worthless for reel arms. My complaint Michael was not of your alternative ideas on how to do things...including the FrankenMUT™ in the other thread but that what you provided also did not provide any solution to the problem primarily because you didn't understand what was being asked (specific to a reel arm) including that the solution needed to be such that McProjectionists could change the spindle quick and that everything would remain in alignment. You didn't understand the question/problem yet offered what you knew rather than what would be helpful. John...how would one use that sleeve to drive the reel (think take up)? However, it could be a two-punch solution...ues the sleeve that John just showed....drill and tap the disc for the Kelmar spindle to accept a removable dog pin. Obtain a sholder screw and then slide the sleeve on, screw the sholder screw in and whola...that would work. I suspect that it would eventually fail though as the stress on the sholder screw would damage the threads/material. It would have to be a small screw to work with the 1/4" drive hole (forget about the finger holes as the Kelmar disc is not that large). Then again change the disc to a larger one so you could use the finger holes...just like a MUT would do. Now that could work as an alternate to off-the-shelf (not what Frank asked for but an alternate solution). As to Kinoton and McProjectionists....where did this delicate thing come about? They are NOT that delicate. Do they used Delrin (some say plastic) parts on the gate? Sure...they bounce better when dropped than metal gates too. Who hasn't had to contend with a Century trap or Simplex gate that has been dropped? For everyone's information...nobody has a lock on bottom feeder projectionists...they are everywhere. My high end installations don't tend to use that type of projectionist however (screening rooms and such). I have PK60s running with run of the mill projectionists and so far (years later) ... not one complaint. They are about as zero maintenance as I've seen. I cant say the same for the other projectors we deal with for similar time frames. Certainly a good a respectful projectionist is key for any piece of equipment. Oddly enought...I'd give Cinemeccanica the nod in terms of dealing with McProjectionists well. I just don't like the machine and the end result picture/sound. As for splicers...when did I get tagged as a CIR splicer advocate? (to the point that Gord is ). I'm not as down on CIR as many are and I've seen the booth-monkey use both and often the CIR will stand up every bit as well or as poorly as the Neumade. If your booth will only be filled with that level of projectionists...we've had decent luck with the Strong splicer actually...they are not completely bullet-proof but so far zero broken handles! What people can do to tape cutters STILL amazes me. Reel-projectionists use a Meyer-Hancock splicer anyway (not Y2K compliant as they don't do so well with polyester).  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 07-20-2007 07:38 AM                     Yeah, I didn't think it was a really great solution, but since Frank sort of implied it was for occasional use I thought it might be workable. I couldn't find a 'real' reel spindle for the picture, so I just put the adapter on a hand rewinder - just to get the idea. The Kelmars arms have the drive dog, so the reel wouldn't free spin. There's an amazing variety of ways reel manufacturers have designed just the spindle / drive dog area over the years, so I know not everything will work with every other thing. Many reels will allow you to place a 5/16 reel with the key on a spindle, yet leave the drive dog in place. The classic Goldberg 2000ft cast reel has a 'inset' (where the finger holes are) so they won't hit the dog. A problem I do see though is the adapter will probably slide off when you remove the reel. Anyway, I was thinking about making a 'product' out of this, and I thought I'd make something and send it to Frank to try. There's probably not much of a call for this type of thing anymore, but OTOH, it's easy to make.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-20-2007 07:51 AM                        I've never seen a Kelmar arm with a drive dog and 5/16" shaft. The 1/2" versions do have it, but not the 5/16" (except maybe newer ones than I have seen). Related question: is it possible to have Goldberg reels (6000' sheet aluminum variety) converted from 1/2" to 5/16" shaft size? It seems that it would just be a matter of replacing the center piece with a different one. Is there someone who can do this at a reasonable price? I recently inherited a few reels with 1/2" shafts and would like to have them converted if possible. These are just for occasional use at film festivals and such and some pieces of equipment don't accommodate the larger shaft size.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-20-2007 08:32 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag I have PK60s running with run of the mill projectionists Well, We don't even have run of the mill projectionists out here in MOST places. I'd wager that most of the kids attempting to run them can't even flip a burger... although after a few weeks of supposed projecting the 2nd grade math skills kick in and they DO figure out they can make more $$ attempting to do that at McDonalds. And yes... its mainly the fault of the chains involved... but there is a hiring problem too in many areas. Many locations in Wyoming can barely hire anyone to work at all because of the Oil Boom. Even Some "Fast Food" places only have drive ups open because of the lack of work force. Everyone over there works for Halliburton... I would be too were I a little younge. In Nevada they make 80 grand a year mining gold. I don't know how the casinos can even hire and keep anyone. Mark  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-20-2007 09:56 AM                     Now, this is just too rich. Mark, I believe you meant to say the words "arbor press" and "van" in your last post, no? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-20-2007 10:06 AM                     There's not much I can do about Haliburton paying 100K a year or Barrik paying 80K and fast food/theaters in those areas still paying minimum wage. Its pretty hilarious when you think about it.... the same low IQ kids that were running film are doing those jobs too! In Rock Springs the Wendys was actually closed for a while because of no labor force. Its amazing that employing the same kids that Haliburton has been able to find any gas reserves over there at all.... let alone for a few smart geologists that saved them!! Or perhaps thets why there are thousands of drill holes... they're shootin craps tryin to find it. Granted there are a couple of chains that don't have that problem because they pay projectionists a bit above minimum...AMC and Megaplex. Some stick around for years just because the job fits their life style, but those are few and far between. Have not needed to use the arbor press in quite a while.... although yes... there IS a number 1 one in the van. Took a sledge hammer to the last Ballantyne's around here so they could be recycled into alumnium ingots and processed into something useful . Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-20-2007 11:03 AM                     John, As Scott said...the Kelmar arm does NOT have the dog pin for the 5/16" shafts BUT if you complete the equation and also make the disc with holes to mate with the various finger holes...you'd have a complete solution and would stand up to occasional use. If one only wanted to have the ability to work with Goldberg house reels, then one could drill and press in a suitable drift pin or roll pin (with an Arbor Press, natch)...but I wouldn't want that restriction (just the one type of reel that is safe to use with the dog pin). I was mistaken earlier in that the drive pin is to be 1/4", not the hole, which is to be .265" on the least dimension. A suitable 1/4-28 shoulder screw should do the job.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-20-2007 01:29 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag As for splicers...when did I get tagged as a CIR splicer advocate? ( Was picking on you there a little bit - making up a story on your UPTOWN operation on how well it was ran and when the Crapaplex monkeys came in and destroyed what you created) ..Monte  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-20-2007 07:24 PM                        Yikes, what have I wrought?! OK, let me back up -- the whole reason for the original question was because we got some 6000ft reels donated to us. 3 of them have standard keyed 5/16ths holes and 2 have the 1/2in holds. I wanted to be able to use the 1/2in if I could, and since we do use 2000 footers most of the time, plus now the other 6000ft-1/2in reels, it would be advantagous to be able to switch back and forth as necessary. BUT, bottom line is, we are only talking about two reels with 1/2" holes. Soooo, no sense going nuts just for two reels (anyone want to swap 2 floating hub 6000ft-1/2in reels for ones with 5/16ths holes?). From what I can see, Steve's Kelmar 35/70 arms solution would solve the problem satisfactorily but they would cost big $$$, which pretty much kills the thrill of getting free 6000ft reels, no?! The adaptor in the picture you posted John seems like it would almost get me there, but then that gave me another idea. Maybe my original approach was backwards -- why try to adapt the spindle on the arm when it would be just as easy (maybe) to convert the two reels? I am thinking of the Goldberg 2000ft reels which have a bore hole larger than the 5/16ths key hole; they use a plug which brings it down to the needed 5/16th key. key. I don't know exactly what holds these inserts in place other they are force fitted -- on occasion some have loosened up on me and I've just spread the key notch apart abit and then rammed it back in the whole (that's what she said). Seems like if I could fix these two reels with a simple plug like that, it would put this whole thing to rest. And thanks for the offer of that test part, John. Very kind of you.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-20-2007 09:45 PM                     So, Frank, your question is now equivalent to Scott's. I left off with a joke, since I'd hoped someone else was a bit more certain of the answer. Assuming the 6k reels are built like the 2k reels, all you need is an arbor press (or a hammer if you're going to do it Wrong) and the right size inserts. Though it's probably a good idea to use some LocTite 660 (use primer if you're pressing into Aluminum). I don't know if the inserts are available from Goldberg, though. "Probably." Remember, though, eventually your 6k reels will probably shear off your 5/16" key. Scott, I'd be happy to do yours if you bring me the parts. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-20-2007 10:41 PM                     EDIT: Anyway that a dog pin could be adapted to the flange of a hub spindle to accept those 5/16", 6k reels and not having to be concerned with stripping off the shaft key? just my three cents worth ... - Monte [ 07-21-2007, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-21-2007 10:34 AM                        Certainly an insert could be installed into any reel. Also Goldberg will rebuild any reel to another spec. At the risk of starting another diatribe.....the Christie makeup table spindle could be copied onto the Kelmar reel arm platform. This would allow reversing the shaft like the Christie. I have not seen a reel that could not be driven on an AW-3-make up spindle. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-21-2007 01:51 PM                     Adapting the Christie system to a reel arm would be very extensive, believe it or not...you still have to retain the clutch and belt drive and you would need the Christie dog plate. Believe it or not, the John Walsh sleeve with a drilled/tapped disc to accept a 1/4" sholder screw would work rather cheaply. As for the reels...on the 2000' cast reels...the slug is really only held in by friction. They crimp the slug after it is rolled and then press it in. The crimp will bite into the aluminum to prevent it from spinning. If they don't do the crimp right, it will either be loose or it could shift the slug such that it offcenters the reel. (if you only knew the conversations I've had with Goldberg on this...not to mention the keyway dimensions....but I digres. As to the 6K reel cores...they are NOT pressed in...do NOT try to force them out. However, to change them is not too big a deal...you will want a "Save-A-Reel" kit. They are offered by Goldberg (and Wolk used to have them but I don't know about it any longer). You will need to drill out the rivots that hold the reel together (typically just four of them on a floating reel). The kit will come with a new core, screw-type spacers to replace the rivot variety, a new hub band...and I forget what else. Everything is also available piece meal. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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