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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: Where is the proper place to cut following the second set of change over cues?
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-04-2008 02:05 PM
quote:
Could we please not use the term "cigarette burn"? It's embarassing and unprofessional. This is not Fight Club, folks, it is the real world.
THANK YOU!!!
quote: Mike Schulz
I have also seen prints where one of the previous locations had cut up to 5 frames. It makes no logical sense to me at all.
Back in the days the "old school" projectionists that Joe loves so much felt they had to cut off 5 frames not only because they were incompetent, but because of the foolish idea that they HAD to have an ID frame. Yes I said "an ID frame", as in singular. Remember back in the day before tape splicers, you would lose 2 frames on every splice that you made with a cement splicer. This is why I have seen as many as 12 ID frames cut off at each head and each tail on older prints even so recent as the early 80s. It is the result of nobody thinking for themselves and using reasoning as to why that is such a stupid practice. (After all, many of those theaters ran changeovers back then, and cutting off 5, 8, 12 frames at the tail would lose 2 frames, then after re-attaching the leaders for shipout the next theater would potentially lose 2 more frames on re-buildup for a total of 4 frames from each changeover. After a couple of playdates the second changeover cue no longer existed!!!)
quote: Scott Norwood
It should be noted that some prints have 24 frames after the second set of cues. There are two "standards" for this for no apparent reason.
All current prints from the major labs have now standardized to 18 frames of content after the last changeover cue.
There are many ways of being able to positively identify which leader matches up to which reel WITHOUT using an ID frame. Cutting ID frames removes content from the movie, and for the "old school" guys, in this day and age virtually nobody deciding where the reel changes are placed gives a flip about changeover theaters by holding the shots at the reel changes a few extra seconds to allow for missing frames and sloppily timed changovers. Sorry guys, but that is just the way it is. As a result changeovers have become more and more tighter since they expect for each print to play no more than 2 engagements in the life of the print (usually just one).
Bottom line - although a professional projectionist does not need ID frames on a print, if you feel you HAVE to have an ID frame for whatever your reason may be, cut ONE frame ONLY at the head leader. There is no excuse in the world to cut a frame on the tail leader. One ID frame is enough for anyone with only a handful of brain cells to positively identify a given reel and that cuts the missing frames at the changeovers down by half AND shows some respect for the few changeover theaters left by not having them jump the gun on the second cue because there are missing frames. Remember only a few copies of each movie are kept for archival purposes and the print you are handling today might be the only one left in existence 20 years from now.
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John Hawkinson
Film God
Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 05-04-2008 02:18 PM
Derrick, how long have you been a projectionist?
I suppose you can debate whether it is "unprofessional" (clearly that is subjective), but many of us are certainly embarrassed by it. When the movie Fight Club came out, the term seemed silly and childish. No one had used the term "cigarette burns" to refer to "changeover cues," "cues," "cue marks," or "motor cues," prior to that movie.
Every time the term "cigarette burns" was used after Fight Club, the general reaction of most professional projectionists was to sigh and think, "That person has no idea what they are talking about. They saw Fight Club, but they don't know the industry terminology."
Now, eight years after Fight Club, there may indeed be projectionists who use that term. Language evolves, that's true. But those of us who have been around the block do find the term unprofessional, jarring, and embarrassing. Some of us to the level of "wouldn't be caught dead saying it." If you'd like our respect, and you would like us to take you seriously, please refrain from using it.
--jhawk
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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays
Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted 05-04-2008 02:35 PM
quote: J-Hawk
Could we please not use the term "cigarette burn"? It's embarassing and unprofessional. This is not Fight Club, folks, it is the real world.
You're not alone, J-Hawk! Please change the thread title!
This is a fake term. They are CUE MARKS. I have been in this business since 1974, and have serviced booths all over the country since 1982, and I've never heard "cigarette burns" before "Fight Club". The movie/book just made that up. It was written by someone who obviously wasn't involved in the motion picture industry. quote: Derrick Huggins
i heard that term many times, and had used it looong before "fight club"
Humm, I service theatres in New York, and I've never heard it there, either.
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 05-04-2008 03:17 PM
Derrick is a pseudo person, right? Someone who created a phoney persona so he can say stuff just to make us go wild, right? Or he's one of those high school booth monkeys that actually think like this: quote: Derrick Huggins
maybe you dont wipe your ass the right way either, but im not gonna knock you for it.let me guess...you probally wear gloves when you build a print so you dont get your fingerprints on it also? lol
Surely this is a 16 yr old smartass right?
quote: Derrick Huggins
after a print has been in a theater for more than a few weeks, it is already damaged enough..just get it out of your theater.
And someone who has absolutely no respect for film. But then again, the way this theatre has been run, it isn't exactly the best learning experience.
quote: Derrick Huggins
Smoking is illegal in booths? did you mean pot, or just cigaretes, because i smoke them both all day in my booths..
Hmmm, nice attitude. In NYC, this would get your ass fired.
I guess I am lucky; I've had counters in all the booths I've ever worked. Get 'em used.
For years I have wanted to design one cheaply. There is no reason it needs to have expensive "counting" gears with digit display. If its only function was to let you see where frame lines are, this could be a plastic sprocket wheel with lines for the frame lines and with marks for a foot. It could have a built-in 12v light, a simple thing that you could make for very little $$. In leu of that, just take any old sprocket wheel, mount it on two small L brackets on a block of wood, mark it every 4 sprockets and use it to count frames and visualize frame lines. Piece a cake.
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