Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The stupid are spreading their stupidness (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
 
Author Topic: The stupid are spreading their stupidness
Andy Frodsham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 06-15-2008 09:25 AM      Profile for Andy Frodsham   Email Andy Frodsham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interested to read your post Leo.

We originally opened in 1974 as a BFI theatre and were equipped with Westars (3000ft spool boxes). Joining parts was not an option (and was specifically prohibited by the BFI when screening their prints).

All the BFI archive prints we have recently screened (with the exception of the odd silent film) have splices on the leader and tail joints, so someone, somewhere is defintely joining the parts! 20 to 30 years ago the leaders and tails would not have shown signs of having been removed. Additionally, the instructions included with archive prints no longer mention that parts should not be joined.

What's the official line?

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-15-2008 11:55 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The mistake with the archive departments at the studios is that they make the mistake about platters being a threat and so they insist on change-over. They need to wake up and understand that instead of insisting the prints can't play a platter house, they just need 1) get to know the theatres where they are sending their prints and what their record is for treating prints with care or not and 2) instead of insisting on playing prints only in change-over houses, insist that a qualified projectionist STAY WITH THE PRINT the entire time it is running thru the projector, platter or not. Problem with platters isn't with the equipment, it's that it allows the theatre owner think because it's automated and plattered that he doesn't have to have a projectionist in the booth at all times. Even those rep houses that have change-over setups still mount the prints on 6000ft reels and then they have operator go down and work concessions or whatever until time for change-over. If no one is in the booth or is not attentive to the system from the time the projector starts until it stops, THAT's where the potential for substantial print damage exists. And either system can malfunction and cause irreversable damage to a print and anyone who thinks change-over won't just hasn't seen sprocket punctures throughout an entire reel. Thing is, with a changeover booth, it pretty much requires at least that there be a human being running the show. Automation and platters tend to encourage the absence of a human. That's the key.

Instead of the studios ranting about No Platters, they just need to demand that if an archive print go to a platter house or LP reel house, the print is always attended by a human who can, at the very least, turn the damn system off before irreperable damage is done.

 |  IP: Logged

Andy Frodsham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 06-15-2008 12:55 PM      Profile for Andy Frodsham   Email Andy Frodsham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are, sadly, spot-on Frank!

Even in the early days of our operation we were getting archive prints (still with integral leaders and tails) which had been absolutely trashed while being screened at other theatres. I recall, on one occasion, receiving a brand-new archive print from the BFI, screening it and returning all the parts in the same pristine condition. We needed to screen a copy of the film again four weeks later and the same copy arrived. This time, it had about 30 splices per part, regular perforation damage (warped reels, perhaps) and running abrasions throughout its length. The leaders and tails had still not been removed!

It made me so angry to see how someone could have done this in such a short time.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-15-2008 02:15 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
We all know that the problem isn't platters vs. changeovers per se; it's the fact that any venue which runs changeovers is likely to be a specialist arthouse/rep venue and therefore, by definition, is likely to have projectionists with more advanced film handling skills than the average.
Interesting Leo, but I have seen exactly the opposite.

Also little art houses are more apt to have the cheapest, crappiest equipment with little to no maintenance.

Frank put it best here...

quote: Frank Angel
1) get to know the theatres where they are sending their prints and what their record is for treating prints with care or not and 2) instead of insisting on playing prints only in change-over houses, insist that a qualified projectionist STAY WITH THE PRINT the entire time it is running thru the projector, platter or not. Problem with platters isn't with the equipment

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 06-15-2008 03:39 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, maybe that was a little bit of a generalisation. There are some crappy 'specialised' (as the UK Film Council, known as FCUK to its friends, likes to call them) venues too. University film societies are particularly high risk: you can have a student projectionist who really knows what (s)he's doing and takes care, then leaves and is replaced by a film mangler.

quote: Andy Frodsham
What's the official line?
It's softened a lot in recent years, largely because of FCUK's line that access is everything. In other words, the BFI's paymasters are pulling funds from everything except what the public can see on the screen, and denying access to prints on what they would see as a mere technicality is a big no-no. There are some National Film and Television Archive (a separate division of the BFI from their main theatrical distribution department) prints which are still guarded jealously: despite having been out of the booth professionally for seven years now, I was recently asked to check out a venue near here which wanted to show a hand tinted and toned print of a recently restored late silent, because the cost of replacing that would be eye-watering. But it's certainly true to say that they're more hands-off about the bulk of their circulating print stock than was once the case.

Platters have become the bogie-machines of a lot of old school archivists, and there's no doubt in my mind that this attitude has stopped film shows from happening that would have given a lot of taxpayers the chance to see some of the films their money was paying to preserve and restore. But there's also a risk that the pendulum will swing too far the other way and that archive access officers will feel too scared about trying to make sure that their prints are handled professionally, for fear of being accused of throwing up unnecessary barriers to public access. IMHO the key to the issue is for archives to hire more people who've spent time in the booth and can use that experience to make a judgment call as to whether a venue is OK or not.

 |  IP: Logged

Howard Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-15-2008 04:52 PM      Profile for Howard Johnson   Email Howard Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the BFI prints that I've shown (on a tower) have joins despite sometimes still having warnings on the cans about not cutting off the leaders. As has been mentioned, if a competent projectionist stays with the projector then there won't be any damage. If the joins are carefully peeled back on make-up and spooling off then you won't lose any frames. I made up 2 BFI films last week but all I had to do was plug in a hard-drive and do a few mouse clicks!

 |  IP: Logged

Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-15-2008 05:31 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is something from todays Atlanta Journal-Constutition
AJC story

You say sabotage, I say checklist for my job

By Richard Halicks
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 06/15/08

Sixty-four years ago, U.S. intelligence issued a "Simple Sabotage Field Manual" for "citizen-saboteurs" in Europe, showing how small acts could cause big headaches for the Nazis.

The section of the 36-page manual that explains "general interference with organizations and production" provoked some laughs, however, when observers spotted parallels between 1944 sabotage techniques and 2008 corporate culture.

Some examples:

> Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit shortcuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.

> Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences.

> When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and consideration." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible —- never less than five.

> Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.

> Be worried about the propriety of any decision —- raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the jurisdiction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon.

The manual, declassified long ago, came up last week at the Enterprise 2.0 conference in Boston during a presentation by the CIA, said conference general manager Steve Wylie.

Sean Dennehy, the CIA's "evangelist for Intellipedia and Enterprise 2.0," and Don Burke, "Intellipedia Doyen," were describing efforts to share information among agencies in the wake of the intelligence failures before 9/11. Intellipedia uses the same software as Wikipedia to connect analysts in one agency with those in another.

The conference Web site posted a link to the "Simple Sabotage" manual, which quickly became a bit of a sensation online. The headline on Boingboing.net, for example, noted: "Sabotage manual from 1944 advises acting like an average 2008 manager."

But if that part was for managers, the manual seemed also to have a part for contemporary workers. To wit:

> Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned.

> Act stupid.

> Be as irritable and quarrelsome as possible without getting yourself into trouble.

> Cry and sob hysterically at every occasion, especially when confronted by government clerks.

 |  IP: Logged

Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 06-16-2008 07:52 AM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well i can only say that digital projection can't get here quick enough when we have guys threading like that.

 |  IP: Logged

Jonathan Bodge
Film Handler

Posts: 83
From: East Dorset, VT
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 06-19-2008 07:02 PM      Profile for Jonathan Bodge   Email Jonathan Bodge   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now wait a minute, you did this test on a Christie? When you pushed start did it work better? It certainly couldn't be worse!

 |  IP: Logged

Bryan M. Montgomery
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Chillicothe, Ohio
Registered: Jul 2007


 - posted 06-19-2008 09:21 PM      Profile for Bryan M. Montgomery   Author's Homepage   Email Bryan M. Montgomery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember the debate in the late 90's over film positioning during platter take-up, either emulsion in or emulsion out. Sound track up? Or sound track down? It was just about as stupid as this, at least that debate didnt endanger the film however.

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 06-19-2008 11:40 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bryan M. Montgomery
the debate in the late 90's over film positioning during platter take-up
... and this debate still goes on for some still rewind both ways.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-20-2008 08:35 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bryan...the Soundtrack up/down thing related to more than the potential scratching by presenting the base or emulsion to various parts of the film path...but also film curl and focus stability. Depending on your humidity situation, it can be a huge issue.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-18-2008 07:55 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have something to add to this thread. I don't know if this is ALL of Regal Cinemas or just the Continental in Denver, but apparently it is required that they pile all of the leader onto the floor as they thread so that they don't have to motor the projector. Motoring the projector makes it wear out way faster so this, of course, is unacceptable.

Next thing you know, they won't run any movies just to make sure nothing ever breaks down.

 |  IP: Logged

Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 07-18-2008 11:22 PM      Profile for Ron Curran   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Curran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, you remind me of attending a cinema which HAD the best sound around. I questioned the new owner as to why they no longer ran 4 track mag. He replied that it would wear out the heads.

 |  IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 07-19-2008 04:38 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well today I got a particularly stupid call/complaint.

Here's the convo:

Downstairs staffer asks on radio: Do you guys have a speaker on up there?
*Long pause where I (and presumably the other operator and the booth mgr) ponder what he heck he could be asking*
Me: Could you please repeat.
Him: They're saying they can hear you in the back speaker.
*another pause*
Me: What do you mean?!
He mumbles something
Me: You're gonna have to go into the auditorium [he never said which one it was] and listen to what is going on; you're being to vague for me to figure out how to fix it.

When I next saw the booth mgr, he looked just as confused as me despite the fact that he had gone directly to the staff member in question and asked them what they were talking about.

Though I imagine the person in question was newer and didn't quite find out yet about how you have to be somewhat specific to get things fixed.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.