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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » showing a silent movie right before Batman? (Page 5)

 
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Author Topic: showing a silent movie right before Batman?
Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-22-2008 12:16 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Wings print we played a few years ago came from Kino, film rental was $350--$400 flat.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-23-2008 08:32 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank Angel,

I am confused. How did you run the sound film Enter The Dragon with your own live score? How did you kill the films original score while leaving the dialog?

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 07-23-2008 09:42 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
We were going to rent the print from Eastman House after jumping thru allot of hoops ....(can anyone tell me what's the highest, lowest and mean temperature in the area where you store your prints? How bout the humidity?). >Slightly edited quote from Frank Angel post<
Hahahah- I know EXACTLY what you are referring to.

For those who don't: EASTMAN HOUSE requires you to fill out quite a questionaire, I seem to recall it it was about 7 pages long, before they will let you rent a print from them.

As Frank sez in his message- it's all information necessary to insure the safety of their prints, but some of the questions get into some pretty fine minutia.

I think it took me almost 2hrs to fill the whole thing out due to the amount of research necessary to provide accurate answers.

But.... we got our print!

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Ralph Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Vacaville, Ca./ USA
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 07-23-2008 04:29 PM      Profile for Ralph Martin   Email Ralph Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I tried to buy a lens and aperture plate from ICECO in Florida. The gentleman on the phone said that based on our theater’s throw and screen size it would be cheaper to just use the an existing scope prime lens and to widen the aperture plate at the sound-track side to .980”. He also said that the full frame would be visible but would not quite fill the screen top and bottom about 6 inches. A proper lens would still be short by a tiny bit and could cost $100 to $400 depending on what’s available.

So I need to decide if 6” is worth 100 to 400 dollars.

Hmmm……..

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-2008 06:11 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never seen a pre-cut silent plate available for sale (new). You have to buy an Academy (1.37:1) plate and file it out. Or, if you're in a hurry, start with a scope plate (which won't be quite perfect, but will be close).

Agreed with the others that it sounds like you are paying too much for this screening. Also agreed that Kino is very good to deal with. It sounds like a great project, though, and I hope that it is successful.

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Ralph Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Vacaville, Ca./ USA
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 07-23-2008 10:31 PM      Profile for Ralph Martin   Email Ralph Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the good wishes and thanks for the advice. (Monte, Thanks for the posted pictures – They were very helpful)

Sorry for my next ignorant questions but –

If I get a scope plate and file the sound-track side so that the total width is .980” will it work? If so I think I can do this. All I need is a caliper, a file and a little luck. [uhoh]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-23-2008 11:57 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ralph Martin
so that the total width is .980” will it work
It can work - also make sure the height is at .715

to ensure that your filed edges are straight, best run them in the projector with some sort of film to check for inperfections.

It's quite tough to get a straight edge without some sort of visual testing performed.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-24-2008 02:10 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
.980"? Yeah, right. And Monte... .715"? Where did you pull that one from? [Roll Eyes]

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-24-2008 05:16 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Cassedy
For those who don't: EASTMAN HOUSE requires you to fill out quite a questionaire, I seem to recall it it was about 7 pages long, before they will let you rent a print from them.

As Frank sez in his message- it's all information necessary to insure the safety of their prints, but some of the questions get into some pretty fine minutia.

I think it took me almost 2hrs to fill the whole thing out due to the amount of research necessary to provide accurate answers.

I didn't stop laughing for several minutes after I saw:

Question 234 A: Does your facility have security guards patrolling the film storage area?

B: Are they armed?

GEH's philosophy is pretty much the same as ours: to treat projection prints, both original and of restorations from their own preservation elements, as valuable objects that should always be treated with care, expertise and respect. I suppose the questionnaire is basically a massive hoop they ask venues to jump through as a way of showing that they take that seriously, and the next best option if you don't have the budget to do a site inspection visit of everywhere that is going to show your prints. But frankly, asking for the home phone number of the janitor's assistant's cat (along with about 10 other people) is taking things a tinsy bit far.

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Ralph Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Vacaville, Ca./ USA
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 08-01-2008 12:19 AM      Profile for Ralph Martin   Email Ralph Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just received the print for Wings today without reels. Just 7 round canisters and inside is film coiled around a plastic core. You’d think they would have shipped it with reels. That’s the way metropolis came to us last year. But it’s here and I suppose the theater technician knows how to build the print for the presentations.

I just ordered 45mm lens – it cost $250 and a aperture plate for the Century SA-TA ($30) and a test film to help me file the plate ($4 per foot). WOW, I thought that the music business was expensive!

So, Monday I’ll be filing my first (and probably last) aperture plate before the theater has to use the projector for a movie. [Smile]

You know… I should probably tip my hat to our local theater for being so willing to let me “play with” their projector. I doubt many other corporate theater chains would be so understanding.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-01-2008 02:35 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
.980"? Yeah, right. And Monte... .715"? Where did you pull that one from?

..if so these numbers are incorrect, then what are the correct decmial measurements for his needed aperture settings instead of barking on us making us look like we don't know anything?

(got my number from the Simplex parts manual for a 1.37/1) aperture..)

-Monte

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-01-2008 04:18 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To be fair to Eastman House, I think those really detailed questions about armed guards and what's the height of the loading dock, etc. has more to do with the big collections that they loan out to other museums on long-term basis, rather than on the arthouse that is running a title for a few days. I understand that they loan entire exhibits of not just film but film memorabilia as well.

If I was going to loan a print or a bunch of prints so a place for them to keep for a few months, you can bet I would want to know were they were going to be house, who had keys and what was kind of security the place had.

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
How did you run the sound film Enter The Dragon with your own live score? How did you kill the films original score while leaving the dialog?

Mitchell, they had a DVD that was specially authored for them by the studio which only carried the dialog. Since this film originally was extensively overdubbed throughout, it probably was not too difficult to get just the dialogue track.

We do a lot of these live music accompanied films and the groups make arrangements with the studios so they can perform with film on an on-going basis, like Alloy Orchestra, The BQE Project, The Philip Glass Ensemble, etc. They all have a repertoire of titles that they travel with and rotate. In one case, The BQE Project got rights to THE BLUE ANGEL and as you would guess, there was no dialogue-only track to be had, so the group had to use the existing track that was on the print.

The conductor, Tom Nazziola, had a fader at the podium so he could mix the filmsound at whatever level he needed, ducking it under when there was no dialog and covering with his live score. He knew the film intimately enough that he would fade out the soundtrack precisely when his ensemble was playing. Luckily for him, most of the dialog in that film (as is the case in a lot of very early sound films) had very little music underneath it. In fact, in many early sound films, music was heard only for the credits. When Dietrich sang, he just played to match the music that was on the track. It was so well done as to be almost undetectable.

Some of the studios are very supportive of this kind of thing while others are, well, how can I put this delicately.....like Disney.

Tomorrow we have another such collaboration. The music of Carl Davis (prolific composer of TV movie scores and a slew of silents including BEN HUR, PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, THIEF OF BAGDAD) will accompany Charlie Chaplin's THE ADVENTURER, THE RINK and THE IMMIGRANT.

In the spirit of full disclosure, this show is NOT film, but standard DVD into stacked Barcos. We just finished aligning them till about two hours ago and I have to tell you, I was getting a very decent image -- full screen height at 1.33:1 and hella BRIGHT. It even showed the neg splice flashes until we shuttered it down -- I almost wanted to leave them just so I could fancy it was film.

Those electronic shutters on the Barcos, btw, are the video equivalent of what would be an adjustable aperture plate in a 35mm projector -- something someone should have invented long ago instead of all this primitive filing the plate, then checking, then filing the plate, then checking, etc. for hours. Really, how come Mr. Simplex or Mr. Century didn't come up with an adjustable aperture plate for the projectors like in 1935 or something? In my book, that certainly would be worthy of one of those Technical Academy Award. Such a thing would have solved Ralph's silent apeture plate problem lick-it-ty split. [thumbsup] Celebrate Brooklyn - Charlie Chaplin Under the Stars

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-01-2008 12:14 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Monte,

I'm not trying to sound nasty here...but what Simplex manual has that dimension...I checked several of ours...not just the XL but E7 and Supers...nothing about a 715 x (980) aperture.

981" is a Camera aperture and it goes practically perf to perf.

I listed the nominal silent aperture on page 3.... .680" x .910". On another thread, there is a link to an SMPE article that lists the silent aperture within a few thousands of those numbers (my numbers were by actually measuring the machines of the day).

Steve

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-01-2008 01:18 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After doing this post, I keep on forgetting that this topic is pertaining to a silent aperture instead of sound apertures, thus I got the .715 height from a 'sound' aperture from the manuals and true, the width number .910 wouldn't be posted.

Thus, my total goof in not getting the full facts together before my original post..my apologies to all.

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Ralph Martin
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Vacaville, Ca./ USA
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 08-01-2008 02:40 PM      Profile for Ralph Martin   Email Ralph Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Tomorrow we have another such collaboration. The music of Carl Davis (prolific composer of TV movie scores and a slew of silents including BEN HUR, PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, THIEF OF BAGDAD)
And WINGS. His is the score we're using.

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