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Topic: How do you thread --- and why?

Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 12-29-2008 12:46 PM

If nothing else, I think this demonstrates how much time threading down wastes...
Enjoy.
EDIT: Please pardon the crumby quality of the demonstration.
Also, it's assumed that everyone knows why there's a mile of old trailer before the threading leader and that at this location we thread to a specific start position rather than do a running start or a cued start.

Threading up vs. Threading out

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-29-2008 01:24 PM

Good presentation, yet a question:

On your threading down, why didn't you attach the lead to the LP-270's ring and spin the platter (doing your "triangle" load as you did with the threading up procedure) til the area that where you need to frame up was close, so that only 4 ft of film was on the floor when you pulled down to the required number area instead of wasting the time untangling what was accumulated on the floor to attach the end to the ring?

That's definitely called "WORK"!

Still, a good video..

Good luck - Monte

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 12-29-2008 02:07 PM

Good eye, Monte! Spotted that Speco from a mile away didja?

quote: Monte L Fullmer
On your threading down, why didn't you attach the lead to the LP-270's ring and spin the platter (doing your "triangle" load as you did with the threading up procedure) til the area that where you need to frame up was close, so that only 4 ft of film was on the floor when you pulled down to the required number area instead of wasting the time untangling what was accumulated on the floor to attach the end to the ring?

I thought about doing that as demonstration 2 and then threading up as demo 3 however I decided not to as I've only ever seen that done once. In fact that's how I learned back in the day.
I've seen more frequently the first method of just throwing it all on the floor.

Now, I agree, that's a lot of film to put on the floor, more than you might see on a normal basis however we have a few houses in the chain with long distances between platter and projector so it is a reality for us.

I'm trying to convince powers that be that threading up is faster, more accurate, and cleaner so I'm comparing the two practices in use. The one the chain staff was trained to with and the one I've been training the new hires with.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-29-2008 02:19 PM

quote: Dominic Espinosa
Spotted that Speco from a mile away

Worked with these units for 8yrs - got to know them inside and out pretty well..and how to make them stand on their heads and bark at the moon when I hollered "Do IT" [Big Grin]

quote: Dominic Espinosa
however we have a few houses in the chain with long distances between platter and projector so it is a reality for us.

...and this is where 'reverse threading' comes into play if you have that distance. Yet, I have a house that has the distance also, and I still attach the film to the ring first then wind the lead on the ring until my mark on the lead comes up to thread. I still have my 4ft to work with during the regular downthread.

It's like "we are supposed to have FUN while doing our work. So, why make it into work?" The goal is to make work easy in this occupation.

I know of one 3plex that has the same Century/SPECO setup and the people do what you showed on your presentation in piling the film on the floor...and the floor is totally horrendously oily and filthy ... and I'm surprised that the Centurys are still running...

Good luck in doing your conversion then with the 'reverse threading' procedures. It's gonna be a challenge to make the convincing happen.

I've showed a few how to 'reverse thread' and the majority of them refused to accept this. Only one girl loved this procedure and accepted this hands down. - Monte

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 12-29-2008 03:56 PM

Teaching people to thread the entire platter first and then threading down might be a good compromise until people can bring themselves to even CONSIDER threading up.

I was taught to throw it all on the ground and never even considered the platter method until I worked at UA. There I was taught to thread the entire platter and then put what I needed in the projector and motor it until I got it where I needed it. (Still not the best method.)

My point being -- that nobody wanted to thread the platter first, they were so stuck in throwing it all on the ground. It took months of nagging and nit-picking just to get people to thread platter first then projector. Perhaps if you approached it this way, the idea of threading upward might not be so foreign and be met with less resistance.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-29-2008 04:06 PM

People amaze me. I can't believe there exists anyone who would just throw all of the leader on the floor like that! I teach the threading up method from the very start and it is not hard for the newbies to comprehend.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-29-2008 05:16 PM

Everyone that I teach learns to thread the entire platter system up and then thread from the bottom up, not an inch of film hits the floor and once they are compatent in this it only takes 45 seconds or so to do the whole thing.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-29-2008 08:17 PM

Oh, I agree with Kurt (have you thrown that SP-35 'doorstop' splicer at anybody yet to knock them out of their senses..lol?) and Joe about training them from the get-go on reverse training since these two are probably at their respective location at all times and can have that control over whoever comes upstairs in the booth.

But my position isn't company booth manager, but company engineer that works P/T at a 6plex where my office is at.

Thus, the mgr is responsible of booth training and I just check the trainees out to pass them or not on their training.

..and trying to convince these mgrs to do reverse training is like pulling teeth from a rapid crocodile...so, I leave it at that.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 12-30-2008 06:45 PM

None of this stupid discussion matters at all, you won't be threading at all in a few years, so give it up, learn all you can or at least all you'll need to know about digital cinema so you will be of some use and be one of those who has a job.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-30-2008 08:46 PM

quote: Kurt Zupin
once they are compatent in this it only takes 45 seconds or so to do the whole thing.

I wonder if people trying to set "speed records" for threading are the ones responsible for all the out-of-frame starts we hear about?

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John Koutsoumis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 261
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-30-2008 09:42 PM

It takes me about 2 minutes to thread platter and projector. I don't go super fast. I am comformtable with the way I thread. I have others go faster which results in hand/finger smears on lenses, gates dropped (VIC 8's), platter mis-thread, wrong film threaded and of course as Mike said out of frames.
There are those that can thread lightning fast with no errors but I say "whatever". I am going to enjoy the joy of threading while I still can.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-31-2008 01:16 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
I wonder if people trying to set "speed records" for threading are the ones responsible for all the out-of-frame starts we hear about?

When I used to work at a 4plex with CineV5's and LP-270 platters, I could do the complete lace by the time I pulled the ring til the time the rewind platter had the film tight between 50 sec to a minute .. and still managed to be in frame.

We booth people would have these races and I still managed to beat them, even though my guys were quick at it as well and they also threaded in frame ...

DANG! I sure taught those guys well.

-Monte

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-31-2008 10:44 AM

quote: Bill Enos
None of this stupid discussion matters at all, you won't be threading at all in a few years, so give it up, learn all you can or at least all you'll need to know about digital cinema so you will be of some use and be one of those who has a job.

Since the way I thread makes no difference to the customer, nor damages the film in any way, I just keep the critics out of my booth until I'm done.

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Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007

posted 12-31-2008 11:26 AM

quote: Bill Enos
None of this stupid discussion matters at all, you won't be threading at all in a few years, so give it up, learn all you can or at least all you'll need to know about digital cinema so you will be of some use and be one of those who has a job.

I choose to believe film and digital will be living together for quite some time.

BTW nice trolling.

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-01-2009 01:31 PM

quote: Damien Taylor
I choose to believe film and digital will be living together for quite some time.

Until D-Cinema is readily accessible this will probably be the case. Even though (maybe not at the moment) the majors can afford to go digital more so than the indies it's still not worth the roll-out cost. Even in a new installation it's a big jump in build-out costs.

Even once it becomes affordable it'll take time. And even so there will still be a need as there will still be product that is only available on 35mm such as certain repertory titles.

I believe it'll take at least the bulk of my lifetime for 35 to go the way of 70 in terms of popularity due to the digicinema craze.

Film Done Right has a much bigger wow-factor, in my opinion. Especially since watching 2k DLP gives me headaches.

Back to the topic at hand however:
Speed-threading is a good way to put undue strain on the equipment (platters, mostly) so I don't encourage operators to do this -- however -- normal threading patterns can do this as well depending on how you pull the film.

I find it's best to try and maintain a smooth, steady motion rather than pulling fast, pausing to thread something, pulling fast, pausing, etc. which I've seen many operators do.

All in all, opening the machine up, turning the intermittent, wiping out the gate/trap and threading takes me an average of 2 minutes regardless of machinery.

At one point I could thread AW3 with Simplex XL+5-star & cat 700 in 1:05 average.

Once again though if you have film pulled all the way around the brain you're probably going to bend the feed arm, possibly get it stuck, and if your leaders are short scratch your first trailer.

I know I don't have to tell any of the regulars that but it should be said as a caution to the newbs.

P,S.
Happy 10-year anniversary Film-Tech!

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