Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Aftermarket LED replacment part #'s Does any one know any??

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Aftermarket LED replacment part #'s Does any one know any?? (Page 3)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Author

Topic: Aftermarket LED replacment part #'s Does any one know any??

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-16-2008 03:16 PM

Yep! It is still somewhat common for segments to go out in Digital readers of all makes. Readers that have slower speed lenses are gonig to go throgh more leds than the newer designed stuff will. Analog LED's.... I replaced just three or four in the last year that were quite old... I actually see more failures of Kelmar analog power supplies than I do anyones analog LED's these days.

Generally we always have at least 25 LED's on the shelf and a half dozen in each service van... we do cover ALOT of screens. Also, failure of one LED at a site in which all the gear went in at once usually means failure of the others is not that far behind... they all now seem to fail pretty close together.

Mark

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 11-16-2008 04:11 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Tony, Don't forget that all good xenons are also imported....

I already mentioned that in a previous post... [Big Grin]

quote: Moi
Of course, technically both Osram (Germany) and Christie/Ushio (Japan) bulbs are imported as well.

Jason, you're STILL missing a key point:

quote: Jason Beard
....Also if no local parts are avl. and if u did have a screen go dark to no or really bad sound & if U had to order a LED for a dolby, sony, DTS, Christie, Ect. equipment First U have to contact your supplier, they have to find the correct part #, and in our case, Our suppler is 2 hrs behind us in time so we cant call them till 10 am, then they call the equipment manufacturer, Then they have to try to pull it and get it shipped overnight, so U are down even more time... It is all delays while u have a dark screen making U NO MONEY.... It is allot less work and easier if u can just order the part directly Locally or from someone like Allied Electronics, Carlton Bates, Ect. ....

To clarify from your response above:

"If you had to order... " That's why you order at least one part IN ADVANCE.

"Dolby, Sony, DTS Christie etc...."

AFAIK, Dolby, Christie, BACP, Kelmar and Comp Eng. all use the same LED array. DTS and Sony of course have unique parts. As for DTS, it's cheaper to have a spare reader assy on hand,, and quicker to change out.

"Our suppler is 2 hrs behind us in time so we cant call them till 10 am, then they call the equipment manufacturer, Then they have to try to pull it and get it shipped overnight, so U are down even more time... It is all delays while u have a dark screen making U NO MONEY.... "

Again, that is why you order the spare in advance. Thus the reason it's called a spare part. [Roll Eyes]

"It is allot less work and easier if u can just order the part directly Locally or from someone like Allied Electronics, Carlton Bates, Ect. ..."

A lot less work? The time you've spent on this thread is a hell of a lot more than the time you would have spent calling your supplier and ordering the right part in the first place. Sheesh.

While I can respect someone trying to keep their booth running and trying to do so without spending gobs of money, I have little patience for anyone who won't listen to the advice that just about everyone in this thread has given, which is to quit horsing around, order the right part from the OEM or some of the fine dealers here (Why not contact Sam or Mark by PM and get a price quote from them?) and end this nonsense?

Another good quote to keep in mind:

"There's never enough time or money to do it right the first time, but there's always enough time and money to do it again when someone screws it up."

Edited to add: I'm sorry in advance if some of the comments come off as a bit harsh, and I am not trying to attack anyone personally. I just want to make sure the message is finally beginning to sink in. [Wink]

| IP: Logged

Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-16-2008 05:44 PM

I agree totally with what Steve posted, but this topic has gotten beyond tedious.

| IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-16-2008 05:46 PM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr was the last to post
Carlton Bates

Wasn't he that States Attorney guy on Perry Mason???

| IP: Logged

Eric Robinson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 538
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 11-17-2008 09:44 AM

Regarding the added complexities of switching LED's on and off when need/not needed. Just for sanity sake, why not keep it simple. I know I would be somewhat annoyed if I had to spend my time reverse engineering someones fancy LED switching scheme if I happened to be the unlucky chap called to the theatre. I'm sure I would take one look at it, say to myself "what the hell is this?", and then prepare for a long journey of reverse engineering to solve possibly a simple problem.

| IP: Logged

Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-17-2008 06:34 PM

Besides the pop when the LED comes on and off, I've seen some examples of very poor wiring on the LED when some one installed a switch. Bad wiring on a tiny low current wire and of course, no sound at all when the LED fails to come on for whatever reason.

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 11-17-2008 08:46 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr was the last to post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlton Bates
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasn't he that States Attorney guy on Perry Mason???

Nope, but I think he's related to Master Bates. [Big Grin]

Sam:

I too have encountered that same problem, when someone wires in a switch or worse, cheapest relay they can find, to control the LED.

| IP: Logged

Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 11-17-2008 09:35 PM

Slightly off topic. I would never attempt to devise a scheme whereby the LED is only on when the processor switches to that format. That's just crazy. But most every theater I've operated or serviced has been set up so the outlet that the LED power supply is plugged into is switched with the projector motor. (No crazy wiring or relays between the power supply and LED.) The LED is on any time the motor is running. This goes for analog of any type, and Dolby Cat. 701. (I wish it could be done with the Cat. 702 and the BACP penthouse.) What is the general opinion of this method versus leaving the LED on whenever your equipment is powered up?

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-18-2008 06:57 AM

We have some non-theatrical installations where the CP650/DA20 is never turned off. As such, the LED in the digital reader would have a really short life. Also, these types of venues may not run a predominate amount of film...further leading to a short useful life.

I have modified the BACP (Rather easily) to turn the LED off when not in use. If you can work with Molex "KK" type connectors, the method of modification is pretty self-apparent. I recommend using the Molex-KK because no wires need be cut and the unit can be "unmodified" in seconds if the unit needs to go back for repairs. I remember in one venue, we merely mounted a switch in an unused mounting hole (Say one of the mounting holes for a Cinemeccanica)...you merely turn the light off when not in use...this, of course, turns on the RED led to signify that the LED level is not bright enough but I don't mind that one fading a tad!

I want to say that current Cat 702s have a pair of terminals that, if shorted or the use of a resistor to connect will kill the LED...but would check with Dolby on that one.

By and large, 95% of our readers are of the basement type and they all are switched with the motor circuit.

Steve

| IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-18-2008 08:41 AM

quote: Steve Guttag

By and large, 95% of our readers are of the basement type and they all
are switched with the motor circuit.

This doesn't cause SRD dropouts at changeovers? (I'm assuming that it does not, otherwise you wouldn't have installed them this way, but I've never seen an SRD reader wired this way.)

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-18-2008 09:28 AM

Scott,

Re-read you post...of course it would not cause drop outs at changeover...the motor comes on 7-seconds prior to changeover. The projector isn't up to speed for 3-5 seconds (depending on brand, ramp up...etc) so anything before that time is jibberish and un readable. In a changeover, it is only the data that is read just prior to changeover (determined by offset...in the case of basement readers...about 20-26 perfs or 5-6 frames).

What WOULD cause drop outs would be turning on the LED at changeover and even that might not cause a problem due to "splice cache." The information around a reel change is backed up to ensure a smooth changeover.

Steve

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-18-2008 05:55 PM

Now, here's a variation to what I brought up here on this LED switching issue that I thought about:

What about keeping the LED on, but us a A/B switching device where one leg of the switch has a resistor that would drop the voltage to the LED in half when not in use. Course, this would all installed after the PS.

At least, where not facing the sudden on issue as what Sam brought up with the possibility of damaging drivers and still the life of the optical LED's would be extended drastically.

| IP: Logged

Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-18-2008 06:29 PM

I don't think this will work well as an LED is a current not a voltage device, that is to say, the voltage across the LED stays more or less the same, regardless of the current. The pop would still be a problem as it goes from one brightness level to another in an instant, not at all like a light bulb.

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 11-18-2008 06:32 PM

Monte, not a bad idea in principle, (edited to add: Sam's post went in as I was typing this one) but again, for what feels like the hundreth time, I state that the COST OF THE LED DOES NOT JUSTIFY the time, expense and added system complexity (and adding another potential breakdown point) vs. the "savings" in LED life.

Sam has the best quote of this thread: (Bold added by me.)

quote: Sam Chavez
I agree totally with what Steve posted, but this topic has gotten beyond tedious.

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-19-2008 01:46 AM

True, I can change out an LED in less than a half hour in a CE holder. Not that all difficult to do esp. if you got all the test equipment to realign everything when done.

So, I'm gonna be quiet on this one - let someone else chime in with their ideas and comments.

-Monte

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.