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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Aftermarket LED replacment part #'s Does any one know any?? (Page 4)

 
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Author Topic: Aftermarket LED replacment part #'s Does any one know any??
Eric Robinson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 538
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted 11-19-2008 09:36 AM      Profile for Eric Robinson   Email Eric Robinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have looked around for data about LED life regarding leaving it on all the time and switching it on and off. I haven't come across any data which suggests that turning an LED on and off repeatedly will make its life any shorter. The data I did see though is that over a period of time, the light output of the LED will decay. Additionally there was an emphasis in the data to properly heat sink LEDs because the heat factor at the LEDs junction is a primary cause of performance degradation. From all of this data I would conclude the following:

1) The less time the LED is on, the less time it is subject to light output decay.
2) Use heat sink compound and heat sinks properly.

So, as far as turning the LED on and off, for the sake of keeping it simple, it sounds like the motor circuit is a great choice.

As for the heat sink, I would have to put my trust in the hands of the engineers who designed it. [sleep] There must have been some studies done by the people who came up with this whole design.

Which leads me to a question: Does anyone know where I can get pictures and information about the Dolby LED array? I remember once seeing a closeup picture of the tiny gold wires which were soldered to the individual LEDs.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 11-19-2008 02:18 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[sleep]

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Todd Shelskt
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Manchester, CT
Registered: Feb 2008


 - posted 11-22-2008 09:45 AM      Profile for Todd Shelskt   Email Todd Shelskt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, we have the Kelmar Basement Readers with Dolby Digital. We bought a couple of LEDs -- at $100 a pop -- but I've never replaced them before. Can someone quickly go over the steps with me, or point me to some on-line instructions? Thanks.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-22-2008 09:52 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You paid Waaaaaaay too much for those!!!

You need to perform a complete A chain alignment after replacing them. While doing the A chain you should need to turn down the LED voltage in the Kelmar power supply and turn up the preamp gain to get the maximum life span from them. For instructions on doing this take a look on the Manuals Page... look at the CP-65 manual "A- Chain" alignment instructions... it's extremely well written.

Mark

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-22-2008 12:28 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unless you have proper training (and authorization), test films, and test equipment, which means a dual-trace oscilloscope and a real-time spectrum analyzer (RTA), this task should be left to a qualified service engineer.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 11-23-2008 12:08 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[sleep] [sleep]

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-23-2008 12:29 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The original topic of this thread was starting to get really silly, but we have drifted from that and now other people are asking some legitimate questions. What's the problem here??

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-23-2008 09:29 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It all depends...if people are bitching about the cost of the LEDs ($80.00 list from Dolby), then Tony is right [sleep] The cost/hour is insignificant.

If we are talking about extending LED life by switching them on/off, then Tony would be quite out of line with his [sleep]

By extending the life, using a motor circuit, it means that the LEDs will reduce their fade enough to ensure that it is likely that thing will remain good between PM visits. IF they were left on all of the time, they typically do not accomplish this. The cost of the LED then pales in comparison to extra service visits just to change/align them.

In fact, some of my special venue theatres use their systems infrequent enough that LED fade would be the bulk of what they have as they may only use their film projectors 4-10 times/year (Though their CP650 or like processor may be used daily).

Switching the LEDs with the motor circuit is easy and self-explanatory. One would be foolish NOT to do it.

Steve

[ 11-26-2008, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-23-2008 10:04 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
Unless you have proper training (and authorization)
I don't get the (and authorization) part.....

Mark

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 11-23-2008 10:27 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Certain circuits require a certification/license to do certain work. Keeps the untrained from going in over their heads. Louis

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-23-2008 11:35 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It all depends...if people are bitching about the cost of the LEDs ($75.00 list from Dolby), then Tony is right [sleep] The cost/hour is insignificant.

If we are talking about extending LED life by switching them on/off, then Tony would be quite out of line with his [sleep]

Exactly. What we (well, not me) were talking about originally was getting rather ridiculous, but I think this has turned out to be a very informative thread.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I don't get the (and authorization) part.....
I imagine most owners, whether they are individuals or circuits, would not want a projectionist performing tasks that should be left to a technician. It was pretty much a disclaimer from me, in effect saying that unless you know what you are doing AND are authorized to do it by YOUR employer, do not do it.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-23-2008 11:36 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It all depends...if people are bitching about the cost of the LEDs ($75.00 list from Dolby), then Tony is right [sleep] The cost/hour is insignificant.

If we are talking about extending LED life by switching them on/off, then Tony would be quite out of line with his [sleep]

Exactly. What we (well, not me) were talking about originally was getting rather ridiculous, but I think this has turned out to be a very informative thread.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I don't get the (and authorization) part.....
I imagine most owners, whether they are individuals or circuits, would not want a projectionist performing tasks that should be left to a technician. It was pretty much a disclaimer from me, in effect saying that unless you know what you are doing AND are authorized to do it by YOUR employer, do not do it.

EDIT: Um. Wow. Don't know how that happened. (Referring to the double post. Does a moderator care to delete one?)

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 11-24-2008 01:54 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
EDIT: Um. Wow. Don't know how that happened. (Referring to the double post. Does a moderator care to delete one?)

Happens to me on another forum when using IE for some strange reason...

As for the [sleep] [sleep] I was trying to be somewhat funny, not intending disrespect for the new direction of this thread, although I do believe we've discussed the whole switching the LED thing on another thread a while back. [Smile]

As for switching the LED: In special venues that don't always run film or do run a lot of video, and the LED supply happens to be in the sound rack (and thus powered on when the rack is) sure, I agree that shutting it off when not in use is going to save a good amount of LED life. In fact, the screening rooms I build are set up so that the LED's don't come on until the film mode is selected in the booth.

However, in an average cinema where intermissions may be as little as 1/2 hour, with 5 shows daily that's only 1.5 hours of extra 'on" time if not switched with the motor. If the intermissions are longer of course that time increases.

Again, I still don't see (and in most of the installs I've run into so far) the need to switch the LED to gain that much extra lifetime.

You'd get better overall LED life by making sure when it's installed that the physical alignment is done properly to maximize the intensity and uniformity, then reduce the LED current as much as possible, while tweaking the pre-amp gain up (being careful not to go too far and have added noise.)

And Sam and/or Mark , please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't switching the LED off and on tend to stress it more than just leaving it on?

In any event, it's always good to do what works best for your customers, no matter what differences in opinions are expressed here.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 11-24-2008 05:41 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony; you'd be surprise how many "intermission" hours a cinema has nowdays. (I put a lamphouse meter in the bottom of the sound rack and compared the hours over 2 years to the one in the lamphouse: TWICE as many.) Louis

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-24-2008 07:00 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony,

Do your own experiment...Have some LEDs (particularly the ones that work with the Digital track) on all the time...some switched with the motor. You'd be amazed at the life difference...pretty substantial are my findings.

Originally, we DID wire all of the LEDs on all of the time...and then switched due to the life span the LEDs were giving us...again, primarily on the digital side as they need more current for good level.

Steve

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