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Author Topic: Apr 2 Nitrate booth fire at the Stanford, Palo Alto Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-09-2009 06:53 PM                     Maybe a partial alternate to running brittle dried out, shrunken 60+ year old nitrate would be to persuade a manufacturer in a third world country with few or no safety regulations to make some new nitrate film to print old films on. The "look" could be preserved and projection would be safer from new film that would be a lot less likely to break or tear. Of course the prints would probably have to be made there too. How are nitrate prints transported? UPS FedEx and the USPS won't touch it, can't go by air at all, none of the trucking companies I've contacted will take it. Private courier? Pack mule? [ 04-09-2009, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Bill Enos ]  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 04-09-2009 10:54 PM                     ....and we all have our own opinions.  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 04-10-2009 01:08 AM                     It would be a waste of time, and a risk of safety, Bill. As I've previously alluded to, it is not the BASE of the film that makes those images look so good, but good labwork, direct printing from the camera negative, and most of all, the way the cinematographer shot the film in the first place. Comparing a nitrate film from 1945 to a film from today is apples and oranges-- one is a 1st gen print utilizing the entire image area, whereas the new print would be blowing up the 1.85 area (and therefore grain) while having been generated off of a 2k negative. Instead of romanticizing the stock, which will get you no where, we ought to be pushing labs to take more care in the printing of intermediates and final releases. While at Technicolor, I saw many a trial run off the OCN. The sharpness and color of those prints put the modern release print to shame. PS. FedEx still ships cellulose nitrate, but you have to fill out a hazardous materials form.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-10-2009 07:14 AM                     I recently helped a collector in Seattle, WA donate a nitrate print to the Library of Congress Packard Center in Culpeper, VA. According to the collector "if anyone else needs to ship nitrate, best bet is to go to FedEx and consult with the person who handles dangerous goods to make sure the paperwork is correct". According to the nitrate vault manager at LOC, the film is complete and in pristine condition.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-10-2009 09:14 AM                     Rick, Was that print from the Film-Tech member who was trying to determine whether it really was nitrate about a year or so ago? I can't remember who it was now, or are there suddenly several nitrate prints of this film in circulation? This is from my 16mm print of the film: It's an old print, I think from memory it's on Diacetate, and the picture quality is pretty good. The sound quality is another matter, but then it wasn't that good on the 35mm version either. BFI web page on the film Three clips, and the whole film are available via links from that page, but only to registered UK educational and academic institutions. A few months ago the BBC broadcast a radio programme on the British documentary film movement. The programme featured interviews with many of those involved in the movement in the '30s and '40s. I'd like to quote a few lines of what Harry Watt had to say about 'North Sea' "We had no conception of doing anything but using the real people; this was very important, we never thought of actors, and I cast 'North Sea' in the Labour Exchange, in Aberdeen. I sat there as an employer, and this is a terrible comment on acting. I sat in the background, and of course it was depression time so there was a chap at the desk there and people came up and if somebody came up and said 'Any work?' and they said 'No' and he just turned and went away, then he wasn't an actor, but if he came up and said 'Any work?' and they said 'No', and he said 'Look, I'm the best deck-hand in Aberdeen, and I've got my own gear and the last time we went out and caught record catch and I'm lucky ...', and was in point of fact a Bullshit merchant, he was an actor. So then, in the back, and had a talk with him. And I cast the whole thing. We hired a trawler; we were so hard up that we went out and fished, and sold the fish towards the film to make a few more bob." Is this true, or was Harry Watt a 'Bullshit merchant' too? I don't know, but it's a nice story.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-10-2009 03:35 PM                     Stephen, I don't think the Seattle collector is a film-techer. The discussion came up on 16mm site a while ago in This Thread. I'm hoping they will screen it at one of their regular public screenings. I've been to their theater and its like a mini movie palace that can show anything from 70mm on down. Steve G. did the install.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-10-2009 04:03 PM                     Take a look at the 'Film is nitrate... now what?' thread in the film Handler's Forum. Right city, right state, sounds like it could well be the same print. I remember Steve posting a picture of the place while under construction; Kinoton machines still under wraps. It would be interesting to see some pictures now it's finished.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-11-2009 09:11 AM                     September, 2008 at a screening of "Snow White". The projectionist is staffer Dave Marsh.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2009 09:38 AM                     September? Really? I don't think the booth was operational then. Steve  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-11-2009 09:42 AM                     Those Kinotons look good  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2009 02:09 PM                     Yeah, its nice having four film projectors for just one screen I'm fortunate enough to service two such installations. Steve  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-11-2009 02:10 PM                     September 20, 2008 was an open house for family members of LC staff.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-11-2009 04:08 PM                     I'm a bit surprised not to see a digital projector; is one going in that space in the centre? Even if they won't normally be running feature films digitally I would have thought one would be useful during events such as lectures and on-stage interviews etc. Five projector positions, even if one of them is empty at the moment is a lot to fit in. How long is the throw there? Are they using offset lens holders; they don't have the horrible amount of inward horizontal tilt (that's not the right word is it, but you know what I mean) that I've sen in other places with that number of machines. Do they have any other projectors, video, slides? How are they handling the sound from that many machines? Multiple processors, switchers, patch panels? Pity it's a long way from me, I'd like to see the place. I've seen pictures of the auditorium and it looks nice.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2009 05:44 PM                     The space in the middle is indeed for a digital projector...it was futured for the moment and one can be put in on a temporary basis if an event so dictates, for now. The sound...why the greatest cinema processor of them all...the Dolby CP200...it even does Surround-EX in-house. If you do make to the mid-Atlantic area... go to the AFI/Silver too...it also has 4 film projectors and one digital. The throw at the LOC/Packard is short...about 66 feet. All lenses are mounted in Schneider PC-Cine adapters to minimize keystone artifacts but machines 1 and 4 are clearly at the most disadvantage. Note, the pairs are grouped on either side of the center rather that opposite of center. That is, the 35/70s are in the #1 and #2 position, the 35/16s (nitrate) are in the #3 and #4 position. This was done to minimize any perceivable perspective shift on changeover. It works pretty effectively. One should never changeover between 1st and 4th position as a rule (in any theatre). If Kinoton made a 70/35/16 all from one side (not like the DP-78), that would have been the way it would go and would have been much preferred...less compromise. All four machines can run all of the common 35mm formats For more perspective...here are projectors 3 and 4 running 16mm simultaneously (looking back at the projectors from the theatre) Now here is what it looks like on screen (the target is SMPTE 16RT as defined in RP20) Note, projector #3 is showing on the left edge of the screen, projector #4 is showing on the ride side. All of the image manipulation was done with the PC-Cine adapters just like one would do with lens-offset on a digital projector. The projectors are not re-pointed when they go between side-by-side and single projection. Note, these images were taken with my camera phone so they are not the greatest to begin with but you can get the idea. Steve  |  IP: Logged John Eickhof Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 588 From: Wendell, ID USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-12-2009 09:17 PM                        Just so you know..I personally reconditioned the projectors and soundheads that were installed in the Stanford over 20 years ago. The heads are XL and they were reconditioned and had all the factory fire apperatus re-installed and tested. ( including the lensholder seals) At the time of the installation ( Done by Mac Wurtsbaugh and a SF Local Projectionist ) Theye were fully operational and tested well. The trap loop trips were new, there were new fire trap rollers in both the feed and take up magazines. They have Peerless Magnarc lamps running 8&9mm sticks. The booth was equipped with modern 'Cookson' automatic fire shutters, not the old standard drop & run shutters. ( Mainly because there are ports that exceed the max 144 sq. in size for spot lights etc.) The rule when they opened was to have two operators in the booth at all times, the film was rewound and stored in an adjacent room (the original generator room) and that was also the second fire exit. I have watched many silent nitrate prints there through the years! I have always been afforded an excellent presentation! Mr. Packard spared no expense in making it the most up to date, safe, and functional theatre. I am proud to have been a part of it. And for those who have never seen a nitrate print, I can't describe how beautiful the Wizard of Oz looked on opening night at the Stanford! I could not begin the give you a count of how many reels of nitrate have been shown to this day, but like anything else, it's a matter of odds when something can or will go wrong! I talked with the Tech, an old friend of mine ) who went in the next day and upon cleaning up, the machines are in great condition and the fire safeties work fine too!; When I was young I was shown by an old operator to reach in and quickly tear the film either below or just above the fire trap rollers, thus cutting off the film connection from the trap to the feed reel, I had actually seen him perform this task a couple times while projecting nitrate! He always told me to stay right there with the machine! He had E-7s so it was not as easy to see if the film had a problem, like it would be in an XL! I am glad they are up and running again!  |  IP: Logged

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