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This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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Author
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Topic: Another Christopher Nolan anti-digital rant
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Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted 02-23-2016 10:08 AM
Do I dare make bring the topic back to the first post?
Nolan, Anderson and Tarantino only want ONE THING.
They want the ability to do limited theatrical releases on motion picture film.
Why?
Because unlike digital which is a bunch of one's and zero's, heavily manipulated by the imager, processor, codec, color correction and projection... The light that exposes film, is the very same light that presents it. The format is for all intensive purposes an "artistic" one and loosing it because a bunch of studio moguls want to save money, doesn't make sense.
Does film projection on a wide scale make sense today? No... and these guys don't want every theater to have film projection. What they do want is the ABILITY to run film and do it right.
You can complain about Interstellar, The Master, Inherent Vice or Hateful Eight, but they broke new ground! From the point of the studio, filmmaker and projectionist, 70mm was a dead format. However, some very smart people saw it being the answer to saving motion picture film projection. These four films have told the studio's; "Hey, this idea is worth contemplating" and the studio's are listening. The only down side to 70mm is the cost, everything else is gravy as seen in the outstanding quality and projection of Hateful Eight.
I'm a filmmaker living in Hollywood and the cineplex theaters here absolutely suck. AMC and Pacific Theaters haven't got a clue how to put on a show. They run older Digital projectors that are ALWAYS out of focus (can't see the grid). They're rarely in calibration as well, I've seen blue and red channel bleeding on numerous occasions, even walking out of a screening once. None of the theaters have done significant sound system updates and as stated on other pages of this thread, they generally play the audio a lot quieter then premium theaters. Arclight is by far the best, but ONLY their Hollywood complex is worth going to. All of the other theaters are so-so, better by a fair margin then AMC or Pacific theaters, but a lot of times not worth the excess ticket prices. Plus, non-laser digital projectors look flat, they lack the contrast of film and don't have deep blacks at all. In fact, even some of the recent laser projection screenings I've been to, weren't that impressive. When I travel to the east coast and see movies, I'm always shocked how much WORSE they look then here! I can't visit a standard multiplex and watch a movie anymore, it's agonizingly painful for someone like myself who knows how easy it is to fix whatever problems arise.
Mind you, I've been going to the movies for over 30 years, 14 of those here in Los Angeles and until we made the precipitous move to digital, I never had these problems. Towards the tail end of 35mm, things were looking pretty good, like a well lubricated machine. You can complain all you want, but here in LA it was on the up and up. I was at the movies 3 - 5 times a week, I saw pretty much everything that came out. Early digital wasn't too bad either, but noticeably worse then a 35mm film print of that era. Today you couldn't get me to the theater if it was free! The crazy ticket prices and the low quality of presentation is mind boggling. "Lets charge more for less" syndrome and they're getting away with it because nobody stands up for the consumer. Nobody really wants them to visit a regular theater and get a decent experience, they funnel you to the premium screens which are even MORE money!
So here we are today, a bunch of filmmakers who would like very much to bring limited releases of movies back into theaters ON FILM. Yet... all I see is a bunch of projectionists clearly not wanting to be involved. I mean what's the point of even trying to make a difference, when people aren't even excited about the possibility. Why not think positive about this potential comeback of the formats that true cinephiles love? The "art" of cinema is film, it's not one's and zero's.
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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler
Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted 02-23-2016 01:05 PM
Ari,
I don't think anyone here is arguing that we wouldn't love to see some limited releases on film, hateful8, interstellar, etc were great on film. But I'd also say that many of us are very realistic, we aren't "projectionists who don't want to be involved" as many were involved especially with the hateful8 70mm presentations. However like I said, we are just being realistic, there will always be a tarantino or nolan who want their movies projected on 35mm, but the reality is that no studio would ever greenlight a 35mm only release of a major film, but also that a lot of these "nolan, etc, rants" are because there is a benefit to them stirring up controversy, they go against "digital" and create a ruckus and then get news stories and free media about their movies. Hollywood is a business and if anyone thinks that any of these directors aren't very calculated businessmen as well, then they are sorely mistaken.
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Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted 02-23-2016 08:20 PM
I hate to break it to you guys, but the attitude that it "won't" happen is VERY MUCH part of the problem. It's MY job, the job of the FILMMAKER to make that determination. So when Christopher Nolan's new film which is being entirely shot on 65mm is finished, he will need the support of PROJECTIONISTS in order to make it a reality. They and the machines they run are the biggest part of the puzzle. The cameras exist, the film stock exists, the printing equipment exists, the projectors exist as well.
I guess my frustration (and it's not just here), is that people give up too easily. It's way easier to say "it won't happen" then it is to join the bandwagon and say "I'm pushing for it to happen, I'm so excited". If we all worked together and spread the word, things would change eventually, but it takes an effort of a collective number of people to make it a reality, not just a few die-hard film guys like myself.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 02-23-2016 09:22 PM
You guys are leaving out the most important part of the equation: The theater owners. They're the ones who have to pay for all that equipment, after all. They should not be expected to install and maintain a bunch of outmoded equipment just for a handful of vanity releases. It's just not financially feasible.
A return to film as a mainstream format is even less likely than a full-on return to vinyl LPs -- with LPs there is a demonstrable difference to the consumer, in the form of a fun, funky, touchy feely user experience (and, it can be argued, better sound). With movies, most people don't know the difference, don't know what to look for to find the difference, and therefore it makes no sense to spend gobs of money to keep film going on anything but a niche level.
(Disclaimer: I know that vinyl LPs are experiencing sales growth year over year, but they are still just a tiny fraction of the music industry's overall sales.)
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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 02-24-2016 01:40 AM
quote: Tyler Purcell
I hate to break it to you guys, but the attitude that it "won't" happen is VERY MUCH part of the problem. It's MY job, the job of the FILMMAKER to make that determination. So when Christopher Nolan's new film which is being entirely shot on 65mm is finished, he will need the support of PROJECTIONISTS in order to make it a reality. They and the machines they run are the biggest part of the puzzle. The cameras exist, the film stock exists, the printing equipment exists, the projectors exist as well.
I guess my frustration (and it's not just here), is that people give up too easily. It's way easier to say "it won't happen" then it is to join the bandwagon and say "I'm pushing for it to happen, I'm so excited". If we all worked together and spread the word, things would change eventually, but it takes an effort of a collective number of people to make it a reality, not just a few die-hard film guys like myself.
What I'm saying is that the projectionists(the ones who care- all of us here) ARE all ready and on board. You have to remember that a lot of us lost our chosen jobs with the digital roll out. I'm sure I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that I would LOVE NOTHING MORE than to return to it full-time(not to mention half this board that DID drop everything they were doing to work 12 hour days 7 days a week for H8ful 8).... but it just isn't up to us as Mike pointed out. If I had enough money to own my own theater you better believe it'd be film capable and even film preferential but just how feasible and realistic is that? Unless you're willing to make a donation which I will graciously accept and put your name in lights on the restored marquee....
Again, unfortunately, it's the big wig studio bean counters and the bean counters at Regal, Amc, Cinemark that make the decisions and they're both saving money with digital so.....
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Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted 02-24-2016 11:52 AM
It may take a volunteer effort to restore the projection systems around the globe, but more importantly, it will take the effort of people who care to make it actually happen. I thought the Hateful Eight roll-out was poorly done. Not only bad timing, but there were MANY unforeseen issues that made it more difficult then simply "projecting" another film. Boston Light and Sound did everything they could, but in the end came up short. Now (months later) that MOST of the issues have been resolved and the projectors are still in place for the most part, I have a feeling the Weinstein's are probably searching for another film to present using their systems. To me, keeping them busy with whatever they choose, is great. As long as they're paying projectionists, as long as they're still running the equipment so it doesn't get stale. As long as audiences are told it's a "special" experience, these are all the things that need to happen.
What doesn't need to happen is what I saw at the Vista... a two week old 35mm print of The Force Awakens that was completely destroyed. When I say destroyed, I mean it was to the point of being unwatchable. Sold-out showing on tuesday at 2:00, everyone wanted to see it on film. Yet, the experience was god awful. Again, it comes back to actually caring MORE THAN EVER! The print was poorly made and the projectionist put is sticky fingers all over it, there were several seconds of black dots leading up to the splices. There were entire reels scratched throughout. There was constant dirt up the sides of the print. This is the kind of thing that drives people away from projecting film. That same print at the Arclight would be spotless for it's entire run. So it's NOT rocket science, it's simply 'caring" that is lacking in my opinion.
Yes, there are a bunch of "caring" projectionists on here, which is great to see. However, as a community, I just don't see the same mind set throughout the industry. This is just an observation, but it's such an important element to the whole thing. You don't see dirty negative going to the lab. You don't see dirty prints coming out of the lab. Heck, the film is generally spotless going to the theater, especially something as important as star wars. Yet, it's that last step... a projectionist making the changes necessary to their booth and workflow, to insure the print survives... that's what's "still" missing" in a lot of places.
Anyway, I'm glad some of you are positive because that's what we have to be in order to keep celluloid moving. If not, we'll be playing old prints until they're too damaged and that will be the end of it.
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Ari Leedsw
Film Handler
Posts: 53
From: Stoughton, MA
Registered: Feb 2016
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posted 02-24-2016 12:19 PM
"It may take a volunteer effort to restore the projection systems around the globe, but more importantly, it will take the effort of people who care to make it actually happen. I thought the Hateful Eight roll-out was poorly done. Not only bad timing, but there were MANY unforeseen issues that made it more difficult then simply "projecting" another film. Boston Light and Sound did everything they could, but in the end came up short. Now (months later) that MOST of the issues have been resolved and the projectors are still in place for the most part, I have a feeling the Weinstein's are probably searching for another film to present using their systems. To me, keeping them busy with whatever they choose, is great. As long as they're paying projectionists, as long as they're still running the equipment so it doesn't get stale. As long as audiences are told it's a "special" experience, these are all the things that need to happen."
-As to volunteer effort, you can count on my help. Whatever it takes, Chicago-style.
"So it's NOT rocket science, it's simply 'caring" that is lacking in my opinion."
-Caring goes hand-in-hand with being paid at least double minimum wage, in my observation. That and accountability and penalty for destroying $2,500 lengths of film, as opposed to doing multiple, minimum wage inventories counting popcorn cups, not giving a customer a replacement for a torn bag, and declaring an "emergency" when the ticket machine goes down on an automated kiosk, the current "priorities."
"Anyway, I'm glad some of you are positive because that's what we have to be in order to keep celluloid moving."
Hate to be a pedant, but it's been polyester for over two decades now, I think, and cellulose, not celluloid for about 65.
As a direct result of the minimum wage existence of most theatre employees (besides taken-advantage-of managers, $45/hr. cash-paid hired cops, and the cleaning subcontractors who often make more than any of the others) the turnover is often 100% in a 5-year timespan at chain theatres.
Anyone who cares, if fired far far sooner, for not making things like 19-year-old girls' last names, and popcorn bag inventories the priority. Teenaged drama is a natural byproduct of teenaged "bosses." It's surprising how many people DO give a ![[fu]](graemlins/fu.gif) in these toxic, low-education, low-skill environments of part time workers that make Wal Mart's compensation and training look generous by comparison!
I think as a natural development of low print volumes, another element of accountability, that I am going to try my hardest to bring to pass with the help of other skilled film handlers, is writing SCATHING REVIEWS (South Park style Yelping, shaming these corporate shilling programmed asshats and stooges) and holding accountable through negative reports and reviews theatres that scratch up the few prints left, the first-runs, let alone the archival copies!
In my books, God help you if you scratch up 1/5 of the circulating film left of a classic title.
We need to use the internet and social media the same way it was used on Anthony Palmer when he went on his Lion Safari.
That's the only way these WalMart-style big box operations will learn their lessons: the hard way.
It's up to us!
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 02-24-2016 02:25 PM
quote: Leo Enticknap
Hence the reason the Weinsteins had to pay for the H8 equipment installations up front (though they tried to claw that money back through premium admission prices). That was the only business plan that could have made the 100-venue 5/70 release possible. Without it, they would have been restricted to the handful of pre-existing 5/70 venues, as The Master and Interstellar were.
The fact that this was an anamorphic release which even many of the pre-existing 5/70 venues couldn't play without upgrades, didn't help either. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote: Ari Leedsw
I read all of the rules, Brad, and I saw three examples of them being broken by your regulars towards me before I responded in kind. I have eleven years of handling film, and, point of fact, misspelled my own name in registering here, so I don't need the "code red" treatment. I've earned the right to be treated with respect when it comes to speaking with authority on the projected image, just as you have.
Respect isn't just earned by what you (claim) to know, it's also earned by treating others fairly and you know... with respect. While reading through this topic, I didn't find any definitive proof of either aspects unfortunately.
quote: Ari Leedsw
It's like the morons that don't have any way to play VHS or cassette. What have you done with the space you've saved, or the $20 extra it would have cost not to get a combo?
I might be one of those morons. (Although I actually still DO have a VHS machine in storage.) VHS is and always has been an inferior standard and I'm glad it died years ago and I'm someone who still keeps around a few high end CRT screens and projectors. But I keep them around with very good reasons, not because of some false nostalgia. And that's what running deeply trough your comments: False nostalgia.
quote:
We need to use the internet and social media the same way it was used on Anthony Palmer when he went on his Lion Safari.
That's the only way these WalMart-style big box operations will learn their lessons: the hard way.
It's up to us!
I'm not really sure what you want to accomplish here. Like Mike already hinted at: Film, as in 35mm, is never ever becoming main stream again. And NEVER ... EVER ...
If the recently opened multiplex down the street here would decide to play 35mm releases exclusively, which would be extremely hard to come by around here, I assure you, they will not sell any more tickets than they already do, even if they would plaster all billboards in the region with advertising. The reason why they sell more tickets than the competition at far higher prices? Is it because they have two theaters with Atmos and their competition doesn't? Or is it because half of their theaters do have 4K projectors while the competition has none? Actually, I don't even think so, because they do not even actively advertise it... Their theaters are clean, their staff is generally friendly, their seats are comfortable and for now, they seem to be able to maintain a rather high presentation standard and not a single physical reel of 35mm film has ever entered this building.
I've watched both the 70mm and the look-like-shit 4K downscaled to 2K release of The Hateful Eight and although I totally digged the looks of the 70mm picture, most people don't see the difference or simply just don't care for the difference. That's a total bummer for people like me who would love to have a viable 70mm house just around the corner, but it will not happen.
Also, if you look at what latest laser projection systems like the Dolby Vision setup used in Dolby Cinema theaters can accomplish, then I would finally say that the capabilities of digital projection has now surpassed those of 35mm projection in practically every aspect.
Currently, there are no off-the-shelf digital projection systems that would surpass 70mm projection in pure resolution, but it's not like it would be entirely impossible to do just that, it's just that it isn't yet economical to do so.
So, just like digital recording and playback of records has surpassed analog a long time ago, film is also gradually being surpassed in superiority. What stays is the nostalgic factor. And there is nothing bad with some nostalgia, even if it's just technical geekery in the end. Many people love classic cars too. So the market for 35mm will probably never go away entirely, but just like the LP, the cassette and now even the CD, it will become a boutique thing. And maybe that's not even all that bad, people tend to cherish things that are somewhat rare....
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