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Topic: HiDef DVD is price prohibitive? (and other surprising facts)

Rick Hunter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-27-2006 12:25 AM

Toshiba delays HD DVD launch

quote:
Toshiba delays HD DVD player debut

March 25, 2006

Toshiba has postponed the release of
high-definition DVD players in the United States until April, a month later
than planned, so that it can synchronise the sales with
title releases from Hollywood studies.

A precise sales date was not available, said Toshiba spokeswoman Junko
Furuta.

But the Japanese electronics company was "currently working with major
studios and major retailers to finalize sales dates of our players," she
said. Toshiba had previously said it would release the new product in March.

Furuta cited last week's announcement by Time Warner's Warner Home Video
unit, which said that on April 18, it would release the first titles using
the HD DVD format, including Million Dollar Baby and The Last Samurai.

The HD DVD format and the competing Blu-ray disc format, backed by Sony,
deliver dazzling images in high-definition video and can store much more
data than today's DVDs, allowing for more interactive features, like
enjoying a movie while simultaneously watching the director discuss the
scene.

Sony has said it will start selling Blu-ray disc DVD players in the United
States this (northern) summer.

Toshiba's new HD DVD players, HD-XA1 and HD-A1, will be priced at $US799 and
$US499, respectively, the company has said.

The HD DVD format is backed by Universal Studios, Warner Bros. and Intel, as
well as Microsoft, which hopes its new Xbox 360 video game console will
challenge Sony's PlayStation.

The HD DVD format, jointly developed with Japan's NEC Corp, is incompatible
with Blu-ray, which is also backed by Matsushita Electric Industrial Co.
Ltd., which makes Panasonic brand products, Apple Computer, Hewlett-
Packard and Dell, along with a variety of other tech companies and studios.

Sony has already started selling video recorders that use the Blu-ray
technology and is planning to release the PlayStation 3 game consoles, which
also use the technology, by November. Sony has not disclosed a price for the
Blu-ray disc players.

Furuta said Toshiba has begun making pre-sale HD DVD demonstration in 40
major US cities since last month, including New York, Los Angeles and
Seattle.

AP

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-27-2006 02:28 AM

quote:
March 25, 2006

quote:
Toshiba has postponed the release of high-definition DVD players in the United States until April, a month later than planned

So HD-DVD was already supposed to be released, in the past? I only need wait 5 or 6 more days and April will be here. HD-DVD by next week!

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-27-2006 02:14 PM

It was supposed to come out tomorrow, but now they're saying 4/18.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-18-2006 01:26 PM

Just saw it on display at our local Best Buy. The Toshiba unit was $499, with Last Samurai, Serenity, and Phantom of the Opera on sale for I think $24.99. They were showing it on a Westinghouse LCD and it was running in 1080i. To me, the image looked good, much better than any DVD out there but I wasn't blown away. I guess if one has an HD set, this would be a nice addition, but for the average joe, it's going to be overkill.

AJG

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-18-2006 05:32 PM

How many people actually have HD sets? I think I personally know of one household that has one. My personal feeling is that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are both ahead of their time, since HD hasn't really caught on yet (at least among the people I know), assuming that it ever will. For the most part, the general public doesn't care much about picture quality beyond a certain point, and the jump from VHS to DVD was far more signifcant than the jump from SD to HD will be. Besides, HD isn't a huge benefit for small screen sizes; it's only really worthwhile for larger sets.

I'm inclined to believe that the general population would be better served by an uncompressed (or compressed less lossily) SD-DVD implementation, but no one asked me.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-18-2006 06:31 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
My personal feeling is that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are both ahead of their time

This is very true in several aspects.

First, the TV technology just isn't there to take full advantage of it. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats are promising support for 1080p signal output sometime in the near future. The problem is there's hardly any HDTV monitors (if any at all) which can accept a 1080p signal through a HDMI cable. It has taken up to the last year or two for HDTV monitors to start actually supporting native 1080 HDTV resolution.

At least a few million HDTV monitors have been sold, but it is still largely a niche product. It's also a much bigger purchase than a movie disc player. DVD players flew off the shelves by the millions because the prices dropped to surprisingly low levels and could be attached to lots of standard TVs. The movie discs could also be played in lots of computers.

Further complicating the problem is the quality of movie output from Hollywood as of late.

The "new" factor hasn't really worn off standard DVD either. Many still really like the format. And it looks pretty decent on HDTV displays.

I only see HD-DVD and Blu-Ray reaching a critical mass once several other problems are solved:

1. Movies have to get better. Nothing drives a new video format like a great blockbuster debuting on home video in that format.

2. The power of personal computers has to improve enough to easily handle HD material. Right now only high end machines can do it. In addition, computers have to adopt one or both formats and have such optical drives available at affordable enough prices to where they become ubiquitous. DVD-ROM drives were already widely available when the desire for DVD-V standalone players really hit critical mass.

3. The quality of HDTV monitors has to mature to a satisfactory level (1080p native resolution, 1080p signal input support, 1080p rez computer monitor function, etc.).

4. Prices have to fall further. That may happen once analog terrestrial NTSC broadcasts are discontinued. Most square shaped standard resolution TV sets are already disappearing. HDTV has to be ubiquitous across all price ranges and monitor sizes before widespread adoption occurs.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 04-18-2006 09:20 PM

HD-DVD is available now with a huge library of 3 different movies to choose from. Pick such great titles as:

The Last Samurai
Million Dollar Baby
The Phantom of the Opera

Yeah! With great movies like that, you can't lose!

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-18-2006 09:23 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Nothing drives a new video format like a great blockbuster debuting on home video in that format.

Actually "porn" had more to do with VHS taking off than anything. (Mainstream movies at that time were crappier than they are now, as well.)

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-18-2006 11:01 PM

I was browsing at Best Buy today and checking out the Westinghouse 1080p LCD Monitor. It took me a few minutes but I figured out that it was playing off an HD DVD player. I couldn't really tell by the image. It was just a trailer disc and it didn't look good through Batman Returns, but Jarhead look alright. It didn't look as good as the demos with Discovery HD.

I still think that $2,500 is too much to pay for TV and it doesn't have a tuner. And $500 is a bit much to pay for a big clunky DVD player HD or no. I guess I'll wait til it's a bit cheaper and Netflix has 1,000 HD DVD titles.

I think I'm holding out for the $1,000 1080p LCD TV, so I guess it's another 2-years without a TV.

I'm going to go home and watch a Netflix DVD on my laptop. [dlp]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-22-2006 06:22 PM

From IMDB: Link

Critics Unimpressed with HD DVD

Consumer electronics writers have begun to weigh in on the new HD DVD players distributed by Toshiba this week, and most are unimpressed. Several cite an intolerably long boot-up period, a confusing menu system, and incompatible sound. But nearly all express disappointment in the picture. On smaller sets, the writers agree, the difference between HD DVD and a conventional DVD is virtually undetectable. "Bottom line is that HD DVD is great, but will you notice?" asks Ben Drawbaugh on HDBeat.com. Writing in the Los Angeles Times David Colker remarked that on larger screens he could detect a subtle difference. He added: "I tested my perceptions by switching between the two formats. I asked a colleague to close his eyes while I chose a version, then had him open them and guess: DVD or HD DVD? He got it right only about 75% of the time. So, yes, it's better. But don't expect the dramatic leap in quality that came with the transition from VHS to DVDs in the 1990s."

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-22-2006 07:28 PM

I went to Circuit City today just to see HD-DVD. They didn't have it. [Shrug]

I wouldn't be surprised if the resolution of HD DVDs is intentionally a little lower than the format is actually capable of.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 04-22-2006 07:40 PM

That article may apply to the average consumer, but the majority of the people who visit this site would appreciate the difference. The problem which most people seem to be having with the picture (myself included) is that the player's scaler is horrible. It seems as though the picture on 720p looks better with the player set to 1080i without exception. This is very annoying for most people, like myself, whose 720p displays bob instead of weave. And there's really no excuse for it. They even have a note which is included with the player which basically says, "Our scaler sucks. Sorry. Hope your TV's is better!" At least that's how I interpret it.

That being said, my bobbing 720p display looks substantially better when an HD DVD is playing. In a side by side comparison of SERENITY, there is absolutely no question which is better. And if your display is 1080, there's no problem whatsoever. No current video format will look better. It's like watching HDTV without the compression artifacts.

Also, just for completely anal historical accuracy or whatever, the first three titles were technically THE LAST SAMURAI, THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, and SERENITY. MILLION DOLLAR BABY was delayed a couple days due to replication problems.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-22-2006 09:06 PM

Probably true, but unless the "average consumer" likes it, the format is doomed. (Unless they kill regular DVD, which will probably happen I suppose.)

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 04-22-2006 10:39 PM

What I see happening is similar what is going on right now with SACD and those other high-end audio formats. DVD will be the standard thing that everyone has, but eventually players which will play the HD formats will become common. Most people won't care, but it'll be there for those that do. Also, with HDTVs becoming more and more popular, HD media needs to exist in some form or another, and a format as practical in its backwards compatability as this one won't die. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Blu-ray eventually crushes HD DVD or vice versa. But at least one of them will survive.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-23-2006 12:20 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Actually "porn" had more to do with VHS taking off than anything.

Hmm. Porn in high def.

I'm not sure that would be a very good idea. Well, at least not a good idea for me to watch.

I don't want to see some lady's C-section scar in high def. I mean, it's bad enough seeing that one chick's vertical emergency C-section scar visible enough in VHS-shit-vision in the shower scene of Debbie Does Dallas. Red bumps from ingrown hairs on a woman's shaved crotch will show up like big polka dots on a girl's sun dress.

Porn in HD will demand better sets, not just the millionaire producer's swimming pool in the back of his mansion in the Hollywood Hills.

I do agree about porn being big business in VHS and even DVD. I'm just not sure how well its going to play in HD. It'll probably play great though and make a shit load of money.

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