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Topic: Any turntable junkies out there?

Allison Parsons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 630
From: East Peoria, IL
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 02-29-2008 02:36 AM

Riddle me this:

What is the point of the strobe light on these things? Was it a way to pinpoint how many RPM it's turning (when the speed adjust dial is being used), or are/were they just for show?

I didn't see any number on the counter weight. Then I pulled the whole thing off and whomever had it before me had it on backwards. I'm probably going to take it over to Peoria's only place for TT repair and see if they can help me with it.

quote: Damien Taylor
These things are evil! They will suck up all your money and time until black plastic discs cover every inch of your house.

yeaaahhh, tell me about it. Try working at a record store for 10 years. I live in a 2 bedroom house. The second bedroom is my LP/CD room. I would like to have a roommate to help me with the bills, but I can't get rid of my beloved LP's to make room for them haha

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-29-2008 04:15 AM

Gee Allison - with all of that vinyl you're saying that you have, got a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine mixed in with that collection?

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Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007

posted 02-29-2008 07:47 AM

I've found myself as some what of a custodian for all the world's terrible records that would otherwise go unwanted. The scope of stuff out there is virtually infinite and theres basically no market for the things here. I get 'donations' of hundreds at a time, although they are always the same. Sometimes I swear Nana Mouskouri and Demis Roussos have made the most records... ever.

I always wanted to work in a record store, unfortunately theres not a real boom for the things over here, sure I could work in a CD store selling "popular" music, but wheres the edge [Razz]

Excuse the pointless rant, but its hard finding people who share interests who aren't mega creepz0rs

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-29-2008 02:23 PM

The "stroboscope" is there to allow you to check the speed. It may be useful in calibrating your pitch control if there is an adjustment pot for the pitch range inside the unit and if the pitch control has markings (e.g. +/- 2%, 4%, etc.).

A standard turntable will have adjustments for tracking force, anti-skate, and tonearm height. These need to be set correctly unless you like bad sound and damaged records. The instructions that come with the cartridge/stylus should tell you how to mount the cartridge to the headshell (alignment here is important) and the recommended tracking force. If you don't have a cartridge or need a new one, find a good stereo shop; they can recommend a cartridge based on the characteristics of the tonearm (different types of arms work best with different types of cartridges). As others have mentioned, anti-skate is normally set to the same value as the tracking force, but this may need to be tweaked to keep warped disks from skipping. The tonearm height adjustment depends on the cartridge and the thickness of the disk.

I have a Technics SL-1200 with the stock arm and an AT440 cartridge. It's a tank, but not really the best-sounding unit available. At some point, I'd like to upgrade to a Thorens or some other mid-range belt-drive unit. The VPI cleaning machine is also on my "wish list."

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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-29-2008 02:32 PM

Here is how the strobe works: in a dark room, turn the turntable on and turn the quartz lock off. Notice the line of black dashes on the bottom edge of the turntable platter. Look at these dots thru the clear plastic piece on top of the strobe, and using the speed adjustment knob, adjust the speed of the platter until just the point that the dots seem to float in place, without moving to the left or right. This should be precisely 33.3 rpm. When you have done that, turn the quartz lock back on.

Anti-skating: You’ll need a flashlight and possibly magnifying glass for this. Place a record on the turntable and allow the tone arm to drop towards the center. Look at the relationship of the needle to the rest of the cartridge. The needle should still be perfectly centered to the body of the cartridge. If it looks like it’s deflecting one way or another, adjust the anti-skating until it stays centered both off the disc and on. Better: this is a long shot, but if you can lay your hands on an old transcription disc, or any other disc that has a blank (no grooves) side, just let the tone arm drop on it and adjust the anti-skating till it stays in place, that is, does not move inward.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-29-2008 07:15 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
As others have mentioned, anti-skate is normally set to the same value as the tracking force, but this may need to be tweaked to keep warped disks from skipping.

Unless you have a cartridge like this.

In this case, typically the tracking force is set 1/2 point higher than the anti-skate to offset the dust brush. (Note in this picture the brush is in it's locked upright position, not the operating position.)

Here is the spec sheet for this magnificent unit.

And this one just may be the last one "new in the box".

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-01-2008 12:39 AM

quote: Brad Miller was the last to post

When I first looked at this I thought it was some kind of mega-lawnmower or maybe a zamboni.

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Allison Parsons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 630
From: East Peoria, IL
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 03-01-2008 01:00 AM

Monte, I would LOVE to have one of those record cleaning machines! But I find a soft Viva paper towel and some Windex with no alcohol in it works just as good for what i need [Smile]

Can you basically turn a piece of crap TT into a wonderful sounding machine just by adding a high-end cartridge/needle?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-01-2008 01:41 AM

Hi Allison - just have to watch out for using Windex or any ammonia based cleaners: granted no alcohol, but you can leave a soapy scum residue in the grooves. Then, you'd definitely have to "soap and water" wash your vinyl and let them air dry in the dish drainer.

As what is printed on some of the old inner sleeves: a slightly damp terri cloth is really all you need.

Thing about doing the 'crappy turntable into a gem' idea - I did that once with a Garrard turntable - originally had a ceramic cartridge, then added a magnetic cartridge and a pre-amp which worked out not too bad. But, those simple rim drive units have so much turntable rumble were the cartridge really had fun with picking up the rumble plus the rimtire drive noise as well which became apparent in tape recording reproductions. Thus, not a real good idea to do, unless you love to tinker..

Those old cheapie turntables were designed for those casual vinyl listeners who bought those Audiovox/ Craig/Garrard/Lafayette/"RatShack" dime store units that had horrible speakers that came with it as a package unit. Obviously, they weren't in the audiophile world but in a world just to listen to music as they know how it sounds from their transistor radios back then.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-01-2008 01:42 AM

quote: Allison Parsons
Can you basically turn a piece of crap TT into a wonderful sounding machine just by adding a high-end cartridge/needle?

Can you turn a piece of crap theater into a gem by installing a digital projector?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-01-2008 02:02 AM

Garrard did make one very good turntable, the GT55. This was the final version of the Zero 100's linear pivoting articulated arm and produces fantastic sound when outfitted with a quality stylus and cartridge such as the Shure I posted above. I have been enjoying mine since 1976/1977ish and it still performs magnificently to this day.

One of the main reasons why the GT55 worked so well was because of the linear tracking, combined with a traditional pivoting arm. Here is a page I found on a google search which explains how it works. Inner groove distortion was something I never had to endure with this unit. [Smile]

I recall taking the unit into Marvin Electronics in Fort Worth in the mid 80s where they were doing free "turntable evaluations" (which was a marketing trick to get audiophiles into the store to show them how their equipment did not perform as well as the $5000 unit they were pushing. I actually saw them sell 2 of them while I was in line!) Anyway, when my GT-55 got it's turn, the technician started chuckling at me a little bit, but then he just sat there and stared at his equipment as my little cheapie GT-55 was amazingly on par with their $5000 monster. Some of the guys behind me in line waiting to see how well their turntables performed were amazed, and borderline angry (no doubt because they had spent WAY more than I had).

I am actually seeking another one of these, as a backup. I have never truly liked any other turntable as much as this one. Anyway, don't knock Garrard as a whole, because they did make at lease one damn good turntable.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-01-2008 03:40 AM

True, I forgot all about the GT55 with the pivoting headshell that kept the head square to the grooves - as if it was a linear tonearm turntable.

I was just barely getting into serious vinyl listening (mainly classical music listening, but listened to others) back in the mid to late 70's, but was confined to the turntable that I converted to magnetic from ceramic being on a smallish budget then.

True, Garrard really wasn't a bad company in the whole since they had the dominating market with their better turntables available through Lafayette and Allied electronics (in which, I do believe the GT55 was available through these catalog electronic venues) in the 70's, but in retail stores, were their lesser quality lines - lines that I was accustomed with at the time.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-01-2008 11:29 AM

Hmmmm....now this brings back memories. I spend a lot of time and $$$ trying to find MY perfect match of turntable and cartridge/stylus. For awhile, I used a Techniques SL-1301 with an array for cartidges...with an Audio-Technica cartridge eventually winning out on the best for it...Back then Sure was on the V15 type IV (just before Brad's). I must have spent 500-700 on cartridges to find the sound I was looking for.

I then found the turntable that suited me the best...a Mitsubishi LT-30. It is a linear track type and once again the cartridge search was on! Fortunately, I found home much sooner since th AT was still a good sounding unit...I eventually settled on a Signet TK-9LCa. That is the combination I have till this day. In fact, I just was able to locate a replacement stylus for it (new in the box dispite being discontinued for decade(s)).

The SL-1301, being a quite decent unit was outfitted with a lesser/larger stylus/cartridge (still and AT) to be used for lesser or damaged records so that tracking could be optimized for such records without affecting the settings for my higher end records. I had/have quite a collection of half-speed masters (Mobile Fidelity, Natulus and such), UHQRs, a couple of direct-to-discs and even imports on some titles, like Pink Floyd's THE WALL to get better (quieter virgin vinyl).

Sometimes it is like that scene in "This is Spinal Tap"...some of the records are in the "Don't Touch" category but there are touchable versions. Some were transfered to 1/2-track tape and the tapes are used for listening. I have a Cat Steven's "Tea for the Tillerman" UHQR still in the shrinkwrap ("don't even look at it".... [Wink]

). While it is odd for me to have "not for use" items...every once in a while I check on ebay the value of UHQRs...and they are definately holding or rising!

I swear to you that on some pressings, the vinyl versions are notably better than the CD versions but this is not always the case.

Other things I've been known to do to get that sound out of a turntable...take a set of identical phone books, put them down on the counter, lay a piece of wood on top of them, then take isolation pads and put them on the wood and then place the turntable on top...you can really knock down tonearm feedback with that technique. If you want to see how bad a problem you have...don't turn on the turntable (or stop the platter), set your tonearm down on the lead-in groove of any record (I suggest one tht you don't charish as each set down can cause a tick) and then choose the phono input with the volume down...slowly raise the volume and you will eventually get the system to feadback...the better the isolation the higher the volume you can get. That phonebook trick really knocks it down.

Steve

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Allison Parsons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 630
From: East Peoria, IL
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 03-01-2008 01:00 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I swear to you that on some pressings, the vinyl versions are notably better than the CD versions but this is not always the case.

True. John Cale's Paris 1919 was rereleased a year or so ago on 180g vinyl. Sounded horrible. Some of the stuff I have from the 80's is hit or miss as well. Broke out my Pink Floyd DSOFTM Original Master Recordings on LP last night. The Floyds always sound good on LP. Even listened to my Division Bell on LP.

quote: Steve Guttag
"...some of the records are in the "Don't Touch" category but there are touchable versions.

I'm 100% guilty of this. If I buy a record, my rule is I don't open it until I want to listen to it just incase it flys up in value. Sometimes I even buy two, one to open, one to sell a few years down the line (which I do do). Thats probably the main reason why I'm running out of room in my house haha.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-01-2008 01:34 PM

I used to be guilty of taking a brand new record and copying it to tape for listening, at which point the record would not be played again. Nowadays, I so rarely listen to records that I just play the actual record (plus my reel to reel deck is long since dead and I am not going to shell out any money for another one). At some point I need to sit down and digitize the records.

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