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Author Topic: DCinema equipment lifespan - why so short? Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-05-2008 10:02 PM                     There are no DCinema standards YET...SMPTE is working on them in the former DC28 (soon to be 21DC, I think) committee. 3D is not on the standard path yet with either DCI nor SMPTE. As to Dolby...they can't say how long their stuff will be usable at all...15 years....bah! The reason they made it so modular is to stave off early obsolesence but there are factors way beyond their control that could affect the long-term support of such fast-changing technology. Heck, it isn't too big a secret that Dolby almost pulled the plug on their DCinema stuff back a couple of months! They are a public company now and investors want to see fast returns on their investments. I'm glad they didn't...their server technology (player technology, really) seems to be the slickest though some of their choices have me scratching my head a bit). They have already lived through the MPEG to JPEG thing and that was a total loss to Dolby. The Promise drive thing tab was picked up by Tecnicolor, I believe. To not think that this technology is in a volitile state is just plain foolish. We are in a VERY small industry and our numbers just don't make a dent in most semiconductor or software manufacturer's spreadsheet. Lastly, anyone that thinks even the DLP technology will be with us in 15-years just isn't looking at that technology globally...some sort of huge upturn better happen in that market or DLP may be a thing of the past. Steve  |  IP: Logged Anslem Rayburn Master Film Handler Posts: 476 From: Yuma, AZ, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 04-06-2008 01:20 AM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen No one can actually claim any lifespan YET for any piece of digital cinema gear... it is all to new. We have a Technicolor Digital Cinema setup that was installed just before Star Wars Episode II. It has been obsolete for almost 2 years. We can't play product or receive support for it anymore. So, it was installed roughly May 10, 2002 and the last movie we were able to play on it was (I believe) Cars in June 2006. I will claim a lifespan of 4 years on our setup, although I understand that doesn't mean it will translate into 4 years on newer, higher resolution equipment.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-06-2008 09:59 AM                     Anslem.. Not quite... the format used on that gear IS obsolete... The equipment however is not, especially the projector which in smart hands could still be utilized for other things. In my book when a piece of gear is obsolete it can no longer be repaired... Then it becomes a piece of waste. Mark  |  IP: Logged Ron Funderburg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 814 From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-06-2008 10:27 AM                        The definition of obsolete is 1 a: no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b: of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology> 2of a plant or animal part : indistinct or imperfect as compared with a corresponding part in related organisms : To me when parts are no longer readily available then something is obsolete.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-06-2008 10:48 AM                        If the purpose of the projector is to play films and the studios won't or can't provide them, it is de facto obsolete; see the Disney letter. ALL existing machines will either be removed or modified when DCI is completely available in a new machine. As stated before, Who will pay for this? Thank God for Dolby! Louis  |  IP: Logged Ron Funderburg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 814 From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-06-2008 10:56 AM                        It would be a good thing if Studio's would actually see what theaters run good shows, no scratches, no bad sound, who does a good presentation and who doesn't. The truth is they don't do it now so I'm not sure they will do more than ask "Did you upgrade your equipment to be compliant?" In the history of Cinema the studios haven't really checked that much on if a theater does a good job, or has good sound or anything other than if the figures they turn in are right. So what would make it different now? Maybe they will do more on this than they have on other things in the past!  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-06-2008 02:17 PM                     Like it or not, any piece of equipment that uses components like hard disc drives, RAM, various types of CPUs, DSPs and other types of chips ALL has a limited life span. The problem is all about spare parts. Every one of those items I listed and every custom based circuit board using various computing technologies is all eventually phased out of production. Just about any electronics company is forced to move on to other things and stop support for items over 10 years old. That's because no electronics company on this planet makes all of the parts for their products. DTS-6 and DTS-6D machines may be able to stay in service for a good number of years to come, but a lot of that continued life span may depend on cannibalizing parts out of other DTS players taken out of service for D-cinema conversion. I'll provide another example. Electronic variable message centers. Just since 1990, the sign industry has gone through 4 generations of products. Any business with a "flip type" time/temperature sign or message center is very lucky if the device still even works. No one makes parts for those things anymore, even though lots of these kinds of systems were sold brand new up until the late 1990s. Message centers using 5-watt wedge based incandescent lamps are hardly supported anymore either. The only way to get a replacement part is by finding a still working component in another device no longer in service. Good luck on that. Everything has gone to LED. But even there, nothing is safe. LED signs made several years ago have completely different components with boards and chips no one makes anymore. If something breaks, that 7 year old sign is just dead. Gotta buy a new one. Of course, there's the example of personal computers. Once a Mac or PC gets about 5 years old you start having problems finding certain replacement parts for it, such as RAM or hard discs. At some point if something breaks you're just stuck with the situation of having to replace the device. The life span of notebooks is even shorter than that. If the hard drive fails in my current notebook, the damned thing will be turned into a door stop. And that comes back to the situation with D-cinema systems. A theater can probably get at least 10 years of life from such a system. But I don't think they're going to be running too many years beyond that. Those systems use so many different components, all of which will only be manufactured and supported for a limited number of years. After 10 years, any computing device is really an antique of sorts.  |  IP: Logged Anslem Rayburn Master Film Handler Posts: 476 From: Yuma, AZ, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 04-06-2008 02:47 PM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Anslem.. Not quite... the format used on that gear IS obsolete... The equipment however is not, especially the projector which in smart hands could still be utilized for other things. In my book when a piece of gear is obsolete it can no longer be repaired... Then it becomes a piece of waste. I respectfully disagree. We are a movie theater, and we got the equipment to show movies on. Whether we can use it for anything else is moot, it no longer serves it's intended purpose. If the thing runs for 100 years, it doesn't matter if we can't use it for what it was purchased after 4 years. We are looking at doing some other things with it, and would love to make it work for something, but that's a different story.  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-06-2008 03:03 PM                     There is an analogy in radio. My husband has had to junk $6,000+ dedicated satelite receivers because the networks changed carrier width, digital signal encoding, or sampling rates. After only a few years. The receiver units still work perfectly (technically), but the signals they are designed to receive are no longer there. The units are obsolete. However, if one is sharp enough, they don't have to buy any doorstops. [ 04-06-2008, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Hillary Charles ]  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-07-2008 08:52 AM                     Hillary, This still doesn't show that they are obsolete. Only in the terms of his use of them. They may still work just fine for some other satellite reception purpose in another environment. Mark  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-07-2008 09:50 AM                        So, if bread is discontinued, my toaster doesn't become obsolete? Because, obviously, someone can find a use for a device that produces heat for a few minutes and then pops up whatever is inside it, right? Let me guess...if gasoline is discontinued, cars don't become obsolete, either?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-07-2008 10:52 AM                     Scott... Nice try... I make my own bread.... don't you? Mark  |  IP: Logged Ron Funderburg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 814 From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-07-2008 02:04 PM                        Mark, if Anslem's projector cannot be used for its intended purpose it may not be technically obsolete but has no value for the owner. So the question to you is what other purpose can bring in constant and consistent income other than movies, what purpose can have as many times and as many people as movies? Well Mark what? Since you make your own bread do they have to make their own movies?  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-07-2008 03:28 PM                     Mark, If the old receivers are still usable, John will GLADLY sell them to you for HALF PRICE! A bargain you should jump at! Hill  |  IP: Logged Ron Funderburg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 814 From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-07-2008 05:49 PM                        Steve said: quote: Steve Guttag Lastly, anyone that thinks even the DLP technology will be with us in 15-years just isn't looking at that technology globally...some sort of huge upturn better happen in that market or DLP may be a thing of the past. Steve, don't you think the true market for DLP is the home market? I may have been pioneered for theaters but the real market potential is home theater, TV's and Projection TV that is where they put advertising bucks anyway. "It's the mirrors" There is always far more potential in the home market than their is the movie theater proper! Or am I full of it?  |  IP: Logged

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