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Topic: Marcus Now Equipping D-Cinema

Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-19-2006 08:56 PM

It seems like the special events enabled by digital cinema are on the rise lately.

Currently, I have three events on my "New Movies" page that have showtimes between tomorrow (Nightmare on Elm Street event), Monday (Depeche Mode) and October 11th (Gretchen Wilson).

These events are perfect examples of alternative programming that I think would be of interest to audiences. I wish the Nightmare on Elm Street event was at a theater nearby, I'd like to attend it.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-20-2006 09:34 AM

Scott, it should be noted that these shows are going through your preshow projector and not a D-Cinema grade projector.

At least that is the way that most places are doing it.

I'm currently running Broken Bridges through my LW25. Wish it was an LW41 so the second bulb could be on.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-20-2006 10:31 AM

quote: Ron Yost
I WOULD like to get a nice nearly-free 35mm Kinoton for my little home screening room out of this 'changeover'. Maybe I can 'divert' one on its way as scrap to China? Yeah, that'll happen, huh? And, yes, I know there are relatively few of them out there compared to the industry-workhorse machines that will be scrapped. What a wasteful folly.

You'll definitely have to look hard to find something like a good Kinoton projector out of all the ones put into mothballs from D-Cinema conversions. There will be lots more in the way of Simplex units and such.

It would seem that used digital sound processors would be easy and cheap to aquire with all the install activity going on with circuits like Carmike. But that's provided if Carmike has the D-cinema installers remove existing DTS and Dolby Digital players out of sound racks and then sell them. Of course, lots of theaters have CP500 or CP650 cinema processors with integrated Dolby Digital playback. Those will stay put.

quote: Steve Guttag
A digital projector is out of date in 5-years time and is EXTREMELY expensive to service and will obsolete very fast with only single source supply of parts.

There is one upside to this, at least in terms of theater chains doing circuit-wide conversions. They will have only one or two models of digital projectors from just one brand. That will simplify things a great deal. With a chain like Carmike, there's a whole smorgasbord of different film projection systems in place, some good, some bad, some new and some really old.

Still, I think these digital projection systems need to be more modular in design to make system upgrades more feasible. Right now you pretty much have to rip out everything (projectors, data server, data & electrical cabling, etc.) and start all over again.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-20-2006 08:14 PM

For the record, the Kidtoon's matinee series Carmike is currently running utilizes the CP-2000, not any lower grade preshow projector.

[ 09-21-2006, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Dustin Mitchell ]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-24-2006 06:36 AM

quote: Steve Guttag
Mark, the cost per year of a DCinema system is significantly higher due to their very short life expectancy. A film projector 5-years after it is installed can still be kept running with very minimal parts that can be multi-sourced. A digital projector is out of date in 5-years time and is EXTREMELY expensive to service and will obsolete very fast with only single source supply of parts.

No argument there... But did you know there is insurance that covers that sort of thing... Call it "light Engine" insurance or what ever you want but it is available. Also that the maintainance of these systems can be taken care of through at least one manufacturers lease/finance program. Sure these systems are expensive all around but they are here to stay and they are going to eventually obsolete film and... they are not going to get cheaper... only more expensive. I'd rather start now helping customers cope with it and find them ways to alleviate the cost of an expensive breakdown now... not later when it actually happens. The one manufacturer that is doing a lease/finance program does not seem to be worried about parts obsolescence(nor is Dolby a worry) and they will finance other manufacturers servers and ancillary equipment into the package as well. This program actually does make it practical for even a small going theater to have D-Cinema.

***
Also some interesting facts about the Christie AIX deal taken from the Carmike annual report:

Carmike pays Christie $2350.00 per screen per year till the year 2020 for the service contract.

Christie is buying back 1000 film projectors from Carmike.

Carmike is paying a flat $800.00 installation rate. All Carmike has to pay over that is for blower upgrades, port holes, track systems, and electrical work if/where needed.

If Christie gives anyone else a better deal on any aspect of the equipment then that savings will reflect back to the Carmke deal as well.

Basically this whole thing is costing Carmike squat to aquire and for the first time ever in Carmike history each location will actually BE SERVICED regularly.

***
Also: Warners is hardly pulling its D.C. support in any way... The way the virtual fee works right now is different with each studio and at some its vague as to how it actually works, not many know about it or who to contact at each studio. YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW THE WHO, WHAT WHERE, WHEN AND WHY AT EACH DISTRIBUTION ARM! All the studios want D.C., this gives them the control over the exhibitor they've long wanted. The majors have all already signed with Technicolor for its D.C. program which is also based on virtual print fees. Technicolor will be doing a similar deal as Christie/AIX but with alot more flexibility built in such as you pick your own service people, etc.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-24-2006 12:26 PM

The sound factor will still vary in quality from one Carmike location to another. Carmike aquired lots of movie theaters from other circuits. There's lots of different auditorium shapes and sizes, lots of different kinds of audio equipment and varying levels of quality. Newer theaters built for THX certification will naturally be better than some older auditoriums.

Theaters not already equipped to play 5.1 surround would get the additional amplifiers and speakers for the capability, although I think many of those such theaters will be among the last on Carmike's schedule for D-Cinema upgrades. Christie/AIX is currently hitting many locations that already have 5.1 capability on all screens.

The Christie/AIX folks will have technicians making frequent visits, but I don't know if they're going to be doing any work on the audio chain. It would be nice if the auditoriums were re-tuned on a regular basis. Audio seems to need quite a bit more attention than most theater chains are willing to give to it.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-24-2006 06:48 PM

the funny thing about all this is that we now know why Christie really discontinued the new X-35 projector. Its because they've inherited 1000 P35's from Carmike. Indeed your next new P35 will probably be a re-manufactured Carmike unit but will have better round tooth pulleys that I barked to Bevin to include over 15 years ago. This is a win-win deal for both Carmike and Christie. I doubt they will sell 1000 film projectors in the next ten years so actual new projector production can cease for them.

Bobby,
About 96.7% of all the sound systems out there are improperly designed or installed and sometimes both. ya can't make a MOD-3 do better than it is able to... Maintainance on them won't help overall quality much, replacement is the only virtue there.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-24-2006 08:00 PM

Over enough time/use any auditorium is going to have its EQ shift, bass get all wimpy, speaker drivers fail and other issues, even auditoriums with top quality equipment.

If anyone wants to enact a policy of "don't bother" on re-tuning if an auditorium has a low cost cinema processor, I would certainly disagree with that policy. If there is an issue where they cannot properly tune the auditorium based on some limitation of the cinema processor then that cinema processor should absolutely be replaced with something that can do the job correctly.

That issue certainly needs to be investigated as these new DLP systems are being installed. Sound is still 50% of the experience, and if it is crappy it will add a pretty negative tinge to all the ballyhoo of the "amazing new D-Cinema" installation.

It's worth noting Carmike's THX certified auditoriums typically do not have Smart cinema processors (I don't know if Smart makes a CP that is currently included in the THX approved equipment list). Usually their THX houses have something like a Dolby CP-65, CP-500 or CP-650 in the sound rack. Many of their non-THX theaters do use Smart processors, but not all are Model-3 units.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-25-2006 08:07 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Over enough time/use any auditorium is going to have its EQ shift, bass get all wimpy, speaker drivers fail and other issues, even auditoriums with top quality equipment.

Bobby,
That just isn't compleyely true. There were some older foam supported drivers that did experience the typical foam rot but far as I know none of the big speaker manufacturers use that type of foam any longer. But for the most part a system that is not abused does not loose drivers nor does it's B Chain drift very much. A Chains are dofferent with fading LED's and such. There can be some very slight EQ change over the first 6 months from driver break in but just on a few models of drivers. For the most part a system with a good processor, speakers, and amps is extremely stable, especially in the dry climate we have out west. I would assume that in areas where there's a constant humidity level such as Florida things would also be consistant.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-25-2006 07:41 PM

I just think movie theater sound equipment needs to be re-adjusted more than the typical once a year or once every 2 or 3 years we see in many movie theaters.

I find bad audio quality a far more common complaint than bad projection. In most theaters I visit these days, despite them having digital surround sound, their audio generally stinks.

Of course, the complaints from whiny-assed people who don't like anything loud are understandable. But that's something to take up with the fucktards who continue to make movie trailers far more loud and stupidly shrill than any actual movie. Those guys need a ball pean hammer strike to the forehead in punishment for that continued practice. I hope some of those trailer producers are reading this and get all pissed off by what I wrote. If they were doing their idiot jobs correctly in the first place they would not be drawing my ire.

Even without the factor of loud trailers, many movie theaters still have crappy sound even when running the fader at "reference level." Not only do you have the natural drift that does happen with hardware over time. You have the other factor of various people in the booth fiddling with stuff and getting things out of balance. For all I know, some theater I may have visited might have some staffer's kid running around in the booth jacking with the knobs on anything he can reach.

In the end, the sound side of things in commercial movie theaters needs just as much attention as the projection -if not more so since there is are many more pieces of equipment involved in a theater's sound system than projection system.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 09-25-2006 08:21 PM

Yes Bobby, most trailers continue to be over-the-top.
However, we have our automation set to play trailers at 30 and features at 40. Rarely do we need to adjust it (but we do occasionally). I don't understand why this can't be done in your average multiplex.

I did hear (while I still could) that film companies insist that their trailers be played at deafening levels on trade days.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-26-2006 03:20 AM

quote:
The way the virtual fee works right now is different with each studio and at some its vague as to how it actually works, not many know about it or who to contact at each studio. YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW THE WHO, WHAT WHERE, WHEN AND WHY AT EACH DISTRIBUTION ARM!

Seems if the studios are so gun-ho for DC, they should make it EASIER, not more difficult for the exhibitor to figure out how it all fits together. Sounds like this is not a well thought out process.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
All the studios want D.C., this gives them the control over the exhibitor they've long wanted.

I still can't understand why any exhibitor would go along with this. What would the studios do if the exhibitors as a block simply said, "No, we are not buying this technology. And in fact, we will not put it in even if you were to give it to us free, because no matter how you cut it, it will cost more for us to operate and maintain it and we anticipate absolutely no profit gain from it, which means in the long term, we get to loose money so you don't have to make prints. If you want us to use specialized equipment and a medium other than the film technology that we've already invested in, then buy back our 35mm projectors, give us the DCinema equipment you want us to use and pay for it's installation. And if you don't want to make prints, they you don't get to show your product." The theatres have all the power in this thing. What exactly could the studios do if the exhibitor simply refuses to install DC? I guess they could go back into the exhibition business themselves and build their own theatres and install whatever technology they wanted. But short of that, if every exhibitor simply demanded as a cooperative that they will only play 35mm prints, then if the studio said no 35mm prints, they can stand there, video hard drives in hand with no theatres to play them in. NO multi-million dollar opening weekend! That's gotta smart.

Seems to be it's the theatre owners who have much more control than the studios....they just don't realize it.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-26-2006 11:48 AM

quote: Ron Curran
However, we have our automation set to play trailers at 30 and features at 40. Rarely do we need to adjust it (but we do occasionally). I don't understand why this can't be done in your average multiplex.

Many don't have the automations capable of doing it. Others may not know how to do that even if they have capable equipment.

I'm wondering if the D-Cinema systems Christie/AIX is installing will have the capability to independently set volume levels for trailers and the main feature. The situation will be better with all the audio for the main feature, trailers and commercials being in digital sound. Most trailers and commercials won't be so damned shrill sounding. However the fundamental issue remains in that it is absolutely ass-backwards to have trailers and commercials booming louder than the actual movie.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 09-26-2006 02:46 PM

I was curious, what do you suppose the average 8 plex would save per year in electricity costs by getting rid off all those motors running for 9 or more hours a day?

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-26-2006 02:50 PM

Those motors are not the big expense, it's those xenon lamp power supplies that make the electric meters spin. Whatever saving gained by eliminating the motors would be more than offset by higher wattage xenon bulbs required for d-cinema.

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