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Author Topic: How much time left for film? Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-12-2008 08:42 AM                     I'll have to say that I've never seen a digital show freeze up or stop in the nmiddle either... Bobby is correct... You have installation OR operational problems at your theater OR the equipment is incorrectly installed, improperly networked, configured wrong, or you're simply not operating it correctly. Another possibility(more likely probablility) is that you're way behind in software updates.... software updates are the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a digital booth to keep up with. What type of gear are you running there? Certainly mentioning that can't get you into trouble. Complaining is usless unless you can provide us with make, model, software version, etc. so we can try to help you sort it out If you're under service contract with someone then its your own fault for not keeping AFTER THEM until ALL the problems are ironed out. If they won't iron them out then find a different booth... there are only thousands to choose from... film or digital or both... Mark  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-12-2008 01:05 PM                     I've seen digital shows freeze as well as stutter - we were some of the very first full digital installs so we had a lot of growing pains the first few months. Most of our issues were related to the rollout of Cinelink2 and watermarking, some were bad equipment (DoReMi servers mostly, but some Christie items). Some of the initial problems were related to transitions between differing content (the DoReMi had trouble transitioning between 2K and 4K content files - basically it would freeze). Over the summer of 2006 all our issues were worked out. Of late we have only seen the occasional stutter issue and it is sometimes the result of a bad transfer from the TMS or poor RAID performance. I can also say that all our problems have quieted down to about the frequency of 35mm issues. I agree with Mark that the issue could very well be software versions or configuration, I know with each upgrade for us the entity responsible has to make sure all the projector components are at a compatible version with the new server version. [ 05-13-2008, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: David Zylstra ]  |  IP: Logged Michael Dolan Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Deerfield Beach, fl. Registered: May 2008 posted 05-26-2008 09:59 PM                        We are planning to go digital on two of our screens here pretty soon. I have never worked let alone been next to a digital projector. Can anyone tell me how hard is it to be trained all over again?? Does it take time to get used to digital compared to the 35mm.  |  IP: Logged Todd McCracken Master Film Handler Posts: 263 From: Northridge, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 05-27-2008 11:47 AM                    Well, if you have any computer experience you should be able to figure out the basics on a digital system in about an hour (cues and all) What kind of equpment are you installing?  |  IP: Logged Michael Dolan Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Deerfield Beach, fl. Registered: May 2008 posted 05-27-2008 01:35 PM                        I have no clue they just had some people up here looking around and taking measurments and such a month ago. I asked about it again the other day and I guess there just waiting for the owner to sign off. I know for a fact they have to convert by next year. alot of Disney movie are going to be disney digital, and disney digital 3-D. Our audience is families and kids we barely ever will run a R rated movie here. But I would imagine it would be a Christie that is what all of our equipment is now  |  IP: Logged Todd McCracken Master Film Handler Posts: 263 From: Northridge, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 05-27-2008 01:38 PM                    Are you going to be part of a Christie/AccessIT rollout or is Christie just installing? If you are part of a Christie/AccessIT rollout drop me a PM when you know the dates and any concerns you have in regards to training and Ill be glad to make sure you have all that you need.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-27-2008 02:59 PM                     The change to digital is dictated by the large circuits changing over to the format. No one else matters! Or do they? The smaller operator is now in a better position than ever to upgrade their equipment as there is going to be a lot of up to date second hand equipment on the market. It was mentioned in another topic that at least one equipment manufacturer in the USA has started to list refurbished equipment for sale. This is a quite major turnaround in the market as it recognises that 'NEW' mechanical projection equipment is rapidly becoming less attractive as an investment. Why buy Brand New 'IF' it's going to be obsolete in a few years especially as some projectors have given some very long service life. The independent market for digital is always going to be slow in the uptake because of the investment required and the availability of good second hand equipment is hard to resist. That being the case the distributors either ignor them and push on with a total digital market and drop them or continue support. Does anyone have any idea how much of the market the independents contribute? To just remove product availability for them would take a very brave decision from the bean counters. You also need to consider the third world markets share to the bottom line. Yes the big players provide the biggest slice of the overall pie but the rest would be a great loss and very difficult to justify right now. 35mm film will continue for some considerable time at least I guess more than 5 , 8 or even 10 years. No industry has been able to totally change it's delivery system with one broad stroke. To do so would be financial suicide. It has to be done in a slow progressive fashion where the benefits are enticing to all concerned. Take the change to digital tv broadcasts. The benefit is very clear and easily demonstrated. And yet it has to be phased in over a number of years so as not to lose a large part of your market to another medium or service provider. The same applies to cinema. The next few years may well provide an opportunity for the smaller exhibitor to raise their presentation standards which will benefit the whole industry. Or the industry can just abandon 'film' and close a whole section of the market down which will benefit no one. As for digital reliability.... I hear nothing but problems. All of the installations done by one company in very different locations. I personally don't believe the equipment is ready yet to build a business model based on a totally digital set-up. The cost is prohibitive, at this time, for the smaller exhibitor and the reliability needs to be proven to at least match that of traditional projection systems.... and that will never happen in my lifetime!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-27-2008 03:31 PM                     quote: Michael Dolan We are planning to go digital on two of our screens here pretty soon. I have never worked let alone been next to a digital projector. If you can run Windows operating systems than you can run digital! Depending on what server they select its either drag and drop or point and click to build up shows. Assumming you plan your show schedules ahead of time figure about 5 min. build time per show. Figure up to 4 hours ingest time for USB drives and 50% or less for hot plug hard drives. Lamp changes on projectors are just about the same as film lamphouses and you need to follow similar rules. Christie has an auto lamp adjust on all their projectors that really works amazingly well. The Barcos I work with have manual lamp alignment using a readout on the projector control panel you tweek X,Y,Z for a maximum number readout. Hopefully they have the sense to go with Christie for projectors and either DTS or Dolby for servers. There are NO OTHER viable servers or projectors in my book, but your dealer may try to steer you another very, very wrong way. Three best D-Cinema companies to work with are... Christie, DTS and Dolby in that order!! Good luck with your equipment Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-31-2008 08:31 PM                        At present, there are NO fully DCI compliant servers or projectors. (see Disney letter) Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-01-2008 10:34 AM                     Louis, The Disney Letter is old. You seriously need to pay attention to what is going on in the D-Cinema world!! The DTS server recently received approval and not just for a single mode of 2-D operation but also for 3-D and stacked 3-D. All of the studios and DCI testing accepted it. Dolby has been forced to play catch up now and has drastically dropped the pricing on their server by at least several thousand dollars and they are still not near the price of the DTS unit... Dolby can't even give their 3-D systems away even with reduced pricing on the mega dollar glasses and the spinning filter unit! The next short while in this industry will certainly be most interesting! While the Dolby GUI is still the best the DTS GUI is but a step or two behind and the DTS has much superior image quality. Gotta wonder where this leaves DoReMi, Qube, and the other server contenders.... Mark  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 06-01-2008 02:50 PM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen DCI testing accepted it What DCI testing? last I knew they were still looking for a company to do the testing and each studio still has their own "approved" server list . . . . .. I also thought that only DoReMi and Dolby were the only 2 servers to have gotten FIPS certification (or did DTS get theirs certified without telling anyone? or maybe I missed an official communication somewhere). DoReMi is left with a significant market share due to the initial AccessIT screens as well as being one of 3 choices on their next wave of 10,000 (hopefully DTS can get themselves in with AccessIT, DCIP and TDC)  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-01-2008 04:08 PM                        Anything not fully DCI-compliant will not get product; that is the thrust of the Disney letter. Therefore, barring upgrades, ALL present equipment is obsolete and will not be usable for its intended purpose: presently major motion pictures. (It may well be adequate for "alternative product" but that's not the business we are in.) Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-01-2008 07:13 PM                     Disney and the other major studios approved the DTS server within the last week and a half. We have been waiting for this to happen because our install is stacked 2-D/3-D before we go ahead with a major install. If any of you need any more info on this I suggest you contact Stacy at DTS. Mark  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 06-01-2008 09:00 PM                        One of the things that's going to dramatically push theatres to digital is the 3D product coming up. Many theatre operators have already gotten a sense of the money being left on the table because of the Hannah Montana concert movie earlier this year. There are something like 9 movies coming out in 3D in 2009 and the number will only grow from there. As I understand it, many of these movies will not be released with a 2D version. Theatres in competitive markets are going to have to go digital on at least some screens just to protect their business. And as more theatres upgrade their screens, there will be an increasingly smaller demand for 35mm prints which will likely drive digital even more. For first run theatres and any other theatres that specialize in main stream Hollywood releases, I just don't think they will be able to resist the market pressures to go digital for more than another couple years. The limiting factors are going to be equipment production and availability of qualified installers and techs. I am curious to know what the future holds for theatres specializing in limited release or independent films. The upside is digital could open so many doors in terms of product availability. But is there enough money in this segment to push digital.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-01-2008 10:58 PM                     Your post is 100% correct Justin! Many will be forced to install equipment if they want to make $$$$. Actually the encode process to D-Cinema format is not that expensive and should be far far less costly than a production's first answer print. A customer of ours is having a 45 min large format film encoded to JPEG 2000 from an existing HD format tape they have and the cost was around 3K. Once they do a permanent 4K scan from the new edited version of their film which was originally lensed in 15/70 the cost to transfer and encode that is right about 150K for the 4K scan from the 15/70 negs and the final JPEG 2000 encode. Most of that 150K cost is obviously in scanning the 15/70 elements at 4K rez. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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