Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: AMC Signs $315,000,000 Deal with Sony 4k Digital

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Topic: AMC Signs $315,000,000 Deal with Sony 4k Digital

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-02-2009 03:16 PM

315,000,000 divided by 5000 = 63,000 per projector... thats a hell of a deal and obviously why they went with it. You can't get 2K systems that cheap... if they could have they'd probably have gone that route...

What ever the real reason for going with the Sony's its going to mean alot LESS film print production over the next three years...

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-02-2009 03:49 PM

Yeah, like AMC has ever completed any of their deals or that they really have the money to do it. Film will still be doing fine.

There is more to the story than meets the eye, I'd be sure of it.

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 04-02-2009 04:16 PM

I also wonder what exactly this means:

quote:
Sony Electronics’ Digital Cinema Solutions and Services (DCSS) group has entered into a non-exclusive digital cinema deployment agreement with Walt Disney Studio Motion Pictures and Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures International. The companies will work together to provide operational and financial resources to exhibitors that encourage them to feature Sony’s 4K SXRD™ projection technology in both 2D and 3D digital cinema-enabled screens across North America and Europe.

Sony’s digital cinema group has now signed digital cinema deployment agreements with four major studios: Walt Disney, Twentieth Century Fox, Paramount Pictures, and Sony Pictures Entertainment.

"Disney continues to be very excited about the possibilities of digital cinema, and has long supported new technologies that give moviegoers the best possible theatrical experience, and provide a wide range of benefits to our partners in exhibition," said Anthony Marcoly, president, sales and distribution, for Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures International. "We're pleased to be working with Sony's Digital Cinema Solutions and Services group in deploying this advanced technology and finding new ways to help theater owners upgrade their equipment economically and efficiently. Sony's 4K projection system offers magnificent state-of-the-art technology, and gives theaters the flexibility for high-quality 2D playback as well as the increasingly important ability to display spectacular 3D productions.”

He added that, “With 17 3D feature films in the Disney pipeline, ranging from great animated fare to fantastic live-action epics, we believe that 3D exhibition and digital cinema are vitally important to the future of moviegoing."

The Sony DCSS group was formed to provide turn-key solutions for exhibitors, enabling them to efficiently convert their operations to digital technology. In addition to digital projection system deployment, the DCSS group will offer installation and maintenance services, customized solutions, delivery of alternative content programming, and high-level service support.

Will Disney be offering VPF to those using Sony's 4K [Confused]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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posted 04-02-2009 07:01 PM

Actually DCIP of which AMC is a partner says they only need to be able to receive VPF's from three studios to be able to convert to digital...

"Where are they getting the money....?"

From Wall Street investors and partners, about 1 billion to convert...

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 04-07-2009 12:50 AM

I reiterate that this whole thing smacks of a massive repeat of the SDDS caper..I feel sorry for those foolish enough to sign on with Sony...like someone else said earlier in the thread, Sony will most likely drop the support for those units right after the last one is installed..

For a company of Sony's stature, I cannot figure out why they continue to make so many fucked up decisions....like not licensing the Betamax technology to other manufacturers until it was too late to counter VHS...history repeats itself....

Another point to ponder: Christie and I believe Barco are using DLP technology, which has had many years of development and field application, whereas Sony's "Super LCD" technology is newer and prone to damage/aging from lamp heat.

Perhaps Sony is using all these poor saps as "Beta Testers" for their machines.

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 04-07-2009 12:59 AM

Super LCD?

Where have you been? LCoS technology is not new. It was developed quite some time back by JVC and Hughes. Sony has just continued with development where JVC decided to concentrate on its use in home systems.

I much prefer a situation where the future of digital cinema is not in the hands of just one company - TI.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 04-09-2009 02:23 PM

Peter, did it ever occur to you WHY LCoS is not the dominant player in the D-Cinema industry right now?

Lack of support and development by the parent company amongst other things. IIRC, JVC/Hughes had the Sony Betamax attitude in the beginning, not even wanting to license the technology to other manufacturers to develop their own brand name of projector. I used to service a home screening room with one of JVC's early LCoS projectors..JVC stopped servicing it after only two years in operation, and the client was left with a $100k boat anchor..they replaced it with a Christie DLP which is still being supported. That was over eight years ago...

TI HAS licensed it's DLP imager to many manufacturers for home, commercial AND D-Cinema uses.

The DLP imager has proven itself to be pretty robust and reliable. It is not as sensitive to heat and UV degradation as ANY LCD technology is.

And while TI is currently the only maker of the DLP device, TI has been around for a very long time and has shown a vested interest in continuing to support DLP technology. The mere fact that they have allowed so many manufacturers to use their light engine shows their commitment to supporting the technology. TI would be killed as a company if they pulled the same stunts Sony and for that matter JVC/Hughes has by abruptly pulling out of the market.

Sony has a shitty record of continuing support for their products..just ask anyone with an SDDS system.

I was told of a client who initially was interested in Sony's 4k projector who ended up going with Christie after they had met with Sony's DCCS people...they were appalled by Sony's attitude of we (Sony) are the ONLY ones who can install and maintain the equipment....they would NOT allow the client to use their own preferred vendor to purchase and install the equipment.

Now THAT'S a prime example of putting yourself in the hands of ONE company. With Sony's past record with SDDS would YOU trust them to be the SOLE vendor for your D-Cinema solution?

[thumbsdown]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-09-2009 05:44 PM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
just ask anyone with an SDDS system

Or just ask anyone thats ever had anything to do with anything broadcast related from Sony... pathetic parts support at best. Not that the gear is bad... on the contrary... its some of the best made but plan on using it for 5 or less years... after that parts availability from Sony is very wishy washy at best and beyond expensive... what ever that is...

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
I was told of a client who initially was interested in Sony's 4k projector who ended up going with Christie after they had met with Sony's DCCS people...they were appalled by Sony's attitude of we (Sony) are the ONLY ones who can install and maintain the equipment....they would NOT allow the client to use their own preferred vendor to purchase and install the equipment.

That musta been our client!! He also calculated in his head whilst dealing with the Sony folks at Showorst that the $83,000 dollar projector would cost him $190,000 dollars(each) by the end of the lease period. The service expense(by Sony) also goes up after the warranty expires... [Eek!]

. Seems like even they don't trust their own gear after the tag goes ding...

Mark

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
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posted 04-09-2009 07:34 PM

I would think that, as part of such a huge deal, Sony pix would insure that there is plenty of 4K stuff to play on those projectors. That would give AMC a leg up on their competition.

I hear a lot of whining about SDDS, but no one seams to have another example. Sony has had a lot of supper successes, such as the trinatron(sp?) tube, the walkman, the CD walkmen, and on and on. Any company that is out there trying, will have a failure now and then. The only way not to fail, is to not try; but isn't that failure as well?

Mark, I work in broadcast. and I have not problem with Sony parts. Their cameras are very good, and their tape machines are the standard. You want to complain about someone, look at Painasonic (panasonic). M format, then M2 format that were complleatly incompatible, and had lots of problems. Painasonic stoped supporting them quickly. Then D3, which sucked, and Painasonic stoped supporting them quickly. How many different incompatible versions of DV (Damaged Video) are there? And their cameras suck. Sony has made tape machines backwards compatible.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 04-10-2009 01:13 AM

quote: Bruce Hansen
I hear a lot of whining about SDDS, but no one seams to have another example.

OK, how about Betamax?

In all technical aspects, a superior format to VHS, (as in some ways SDDS has better quality that Dolby or DTS..when it works...) but Sony's refusal to be smart and license other manufacturers to build the machines (and IIRC for some time even make the blank tapes) is what killed off the format. Despite some fairly decent numbers of Betamax decks sold, Sony, rather than keeping consumer faith by continuing to support the format just abruptly dropped all support. Just like SDDS..and the broadcast gear Mark mentioned.

By contrast, look at Laserdisc.... Pioneer continued to support it for a LONG time after DVD totally took over the market..and they licensed other brands to make Laserdisc players early on.

And Panasonic was one of those makers..and I have found out they can still repair my 15-year old Laserdisc player. I can't speak for Panasonic's pro gear, but I have NEVER had any trouble with their consumer gear.

I DO agree with you that the incompatible formats of tape with Panasonic pro gear IS stupid. [Smile]

I have used and encountered a lot of Mini-DV (is that the same thing you're talking about?) and again it's been pretty trouble-free for me...

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-10-2009 08:43 AM

quote: Bruce Hansen
Sony pix would insure that there is plenty of 4K stuff to play on those projectors

You can't have multiplex's full of 4K projectors and one studio supporting them... what good is that? As it stands now Sony has a fair amount of 4K material but then again Sony doesn't have alot of releases per year that do very well so then what's the point, no one's going to go see them.

My point in case was not the quality of Sony gear but the rate at which they discontinue parts for them. Also the Broadcast division's pricing is on the moon!! I happen to own some Sony gear... DXC cameras and Beta Cam recorders and decks. The other day I had to replace the lithium memory battery in the BVW-50... Sony wanted 82.00 for the Maxell battery but Battery Specialists charged me only 14.00 for the exact same battery. I could go on about other Sony parts prices.... Sony's pricing is by far the more rediclous of the bunch. I used to work for Panasonic's Video division but this was back in the toobe camera days and personally knowing some of their philosophy I think they did the right thing by junking the M format. Also, alot of the networks are using Panasonic's H-D cameras so they can't be all that bad, they also covered a major portion of the last Olympics... but I'll still take an Ikegami any day over any other camera brand out there.

I am restoring a couple of Ikegami HL-79E's for a Film-Techer that frequents these threads and these cameras under daylight look considerably better than my recent Sony DXC camera does. In low light the Sony S/N is far better but both cameras are doing just about the the same amount of rez. and the color from the Ikegami is amazing.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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posted 04-10-2009 11:35 AM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
TI HAS licensed it's DLP imager to many manufacturers for home, commercial AND D-Cinema uses.

Unfortunately, Texas Instruments' business in selling DLP for consumer electronics is cratering. Rear projection screen televisions, whether they're based on DLP, LCOS, etc., are dead. The market is very small for front projection screen systems in consumer electronics. Flat panel televisions overwhelmingly dominate the market.

The only area where I see DLP holding on in any sort of consumer area is in computer projectors. But even there those projectors are in trouble. You have to shell out a LOT of money if you want a DLP driven computer projector that has an acceptably high level of image resolution and bulb brightness. Many of the office conference rooms I visit are hanging large flat panel TV screens on the wall or down from the ceiling.

How well will TI be able to support its DLP technology once the market for it in homes and offices disappears? Sony may be in the same sort of pickle with its LCOS gear.

Intel had big plans to mass produce LCOS chips for HDTV displays, but quickly pulled the plug on that operation when they saw the direction where HDTV technology was headed.

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Lyle Romer
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From: Davie, FL, USA
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posted 04-10-2009 12:08 PM

I've noticed that TI has even stopped advertising DLP on TV.

I guess one benefit is that if they stay around producing DLP for D-cinema at least D-Dinema technology will be something different than what most people have at home.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-10-2009 02:14 PM

DCinema isn't large enough to support it...in fact it has always been in red ink. Last I heard, the DLP engineering was down to something on the order of two engineers with zero R&D budget.

For front projection on the low-cost side...LCD is stomping all over DLP. The only area DLP dominates is large venue projection...unfortunately, that can't support such a technology..it can only augment it.

Steve

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-10-2009 04:00 PM

It costs so much money in research and development to create something like a DLP chip and another fortune to manufacture it. For the venture to be profitable the chips must be produced on a massive scale -millions of units.

How many digital projection systems are being installed in theaters during a given year? 1000-2000 currently? Even if the number was 50,000 (which would be very impressive) the chip count from all those projectors wouldn't be enough to sustain DLP on its own. DLP needs the consumer electronics market and personal computing market in order to survive.

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