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Author Topic: Master Image VS. Real D Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2010 09:38 PM                     Brendan... 1. The young lady was obviously not injured so bad that a lawsuit occured and not everyone feels a need to take someone to the cleaners because of an accident. She pulled the pieces out of her arm and that was the last that I heard of it. 2. The green sticker represents the latest type of wheel as far as I am aware. If it is not then M.I. needs to have a plan in place to notify each and every theater DIRECTLY of a method to verify that the latest wheel IS indeed in place without waiting for a service entity to magically appear and check it. IMHO a green sticker is a pretty foolish way to mark a given version wheel, it could be engraved into the wheel with a vibrator engraver. The green sticker might not stick to the wheel! 3. I agree then M.I. needs to make these units safer!! The idea of putting screw heads with lock washers directly against the plastic wheel IMHO is a bad thing. The filter wheel housing is steel. The one on this unit is dented I just don't know how they can seal up that opening the light passes through so they are safer without causing a gob of light loss. 4. Lastly, I feel this board is the ideal situation to bring this to light(pun intended!). Someone else might have a brainsstorm to a simple solution. I still like the M.I. unit... it provides a super quality image on the screen. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-22-2010 09:44 PM                     ...and I bet that green sticker caused just enough off-balance to cause harmonic vibration to make it to come apart as it did. On the lawsuit issue: Reminds me of a manager of an 6plex forcing the employee, who cut his head pretty badly on some unprotected ductwork in the booth, to get back to work and quit whining on his cut and bleeding. The employee also did nothing towards a lawsuit, yet the ductwork was protected soon afterwards with foam padding ... -Monte  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-23-2010 01:12 AM                     I look forward to seeing the photos. MI had better be working on a solution to this.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-23-2010 01:39 AM                     I don't have any direct contacts with Master Image, but anyone who is reading this that does, please ask them to register and post. I will push their registration though faster if they will email me.  |  IP: Logged Dick Vaughan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1032 From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-23-2010 03:53 AM                        Brad I've dropped a line to someone I know at Master Image to make him aware of this. Dick  |  IP: Logged Richard Garbett Film Handler Posts: 3 From: Sherman Oaks, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2010 posted 11-23-2010 07:27 PM                        Hello, Just a short note from masterImage to make clear our response to this situation. First and foremost we regret that a customer has had a negative experience with our product. We strive to make every theatre’s and every patron’s exposure to masterImage positive and of course safety is a top priority. We have been working with the customer directly and plan a site visit shortly to research the incident fully and bring the system (which is in fact under warranty) up to specification. It appears that through a series of miscommunications an obsolete filter disc was used recreating a problem that had been fixed over a year ago. The system must perform as intended and our goal is a satisfied customer. We appreciate feedback from this forum, even when it calls our attention to areas where R & D may be required. This is how we improve. Richard Garbett  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-23-2010 07:31 PM                     Hi Richard Thanks for adding the status of MI's knowledge about this. We've not had our MI units for too long so are hopefully using the new discs, but what is it about the old discs and the new that differentiates them? What is on the new disc so we can be sure we have the correct ones installed?  |  IP: Logged Richard Garbett Film Handler Posts: 3 From: Sherman Oaks, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2010 posted 11-23-2010 07:55 PM                        Hi John, For easy, quick identification the new discs carry a small green sticker with the letters PC-OK to indicate they are manufactured from polycarbonate material they also have the part number PFDRC370-01 in white lettering on the disc along with a serial number. All new systems shipped within the past 12 months have these newer discs fitted.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-24-2010 02:21 AM                     quote: Richard Garbett from polycarbonate material ..basically the same material that CD's and motorcycle helmets are made from? Thx on this ... and good luck as always. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-24-2010 10:57 AM                     We have a similar report of a MasterImage wheel bursting into pieces during operation in a german cinema. They cleaned up the mess, replaced it with the spare wheel that came with the installation and continued the show. No one was injured this time. So, yes, it does happen. Wether it qualifies for a 'real' Problem, I don't know. Our 35mm booth has some dangerous rotating gear as well. It may well be that MI offers superior 3D quality compared to RealD. But some of the technical issues around it can not really be called superior - construction, cleaning schedules, etc., - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-24-2010 11:15 AM                     I had a talk yesterday with Paul Panaway of Master Image. He did confirm the unit was still under warranty... something the city manager for the chain had been told otherwise. Paul will be sending out a new top end to replace the damaged one at no charge. I can install it... or he can... what ever. We did come to the conclusion that at some point the new style disk (of which I just happen to have a video of it being installed on this very machine) was probably burned by someone failing to turn on the M.I. unit before starting a presentation. It doesn't take long to burn the filter wheel at it's stopped point! Paul speculates and it makes sense that someone put one of the old disks back on the unit so they could continue running that day and no one was ever told about it. There WAS very definately a new spare polycarbonate disk with a green sticker in the booth as well. I speculate someone trying to cover things up or what ever... However... in this case the old disk or disks should have been discarded when they were removed but were not!! Why they were left in the booth by either the past dealer or by the now past southern technician no one knows. The other issue this unit had that several of us noticed was that the hub had some run out to it, this caused the disk to wobble and an ensuing vibration. The past technician had discussed this with Richard but the tech never followed through to have a new top end sent out. Just one reason he is the past technician and the past dealer is now the past dealer! This unit has since been replaced with a Real-D attachment at the request of the theater owner for something more fool proof. As I mentioned to Paul... several things still have me scratching my head. 1. I still have to wonder wonder how much actual engineering went into the design of this unit? IMHO Uncle Rube had nmore to do with it than anyone else... if it has been well engineered from the get go then the acrylic wheels would have never made it to a theater and this incident would have never happened. 2. Some better clamping system to secure the disk to the hub. On all the units in this chain they are merely screw heads with lock washers. Any three year old knows that you don't place a lockwasher or screw head directly on thin plastic and then torque it down as M.I. specs call for!! Paul did inform me however that this has been changed to now including flatwashers with the screw and lockwasher and he will send me several sets to replace all the existing screws on other units. But I say how about doing this one better and doing it right to begin with... A tech is not necessarily going to be the one replacing this disk. The theater manager, or booth manager is PROBABLY NOT going to have the proper torque screw driver that M.I requires. A more certain way needs to be brought out to secure the disk... something like a round metal plate that acts as a clamp over the disk and is secured down by the screws. Paul mentioned he thought that just this sort of thing was stuck somewhere in engineering and he would check. 3. Notify all theater locations either by e-mail or USPS when there is any sort of update that should be done to the unit(s), especially any pertaining to the safety of the operating personel. Any Manager worth his spit is going to be quick at ensuring he has zero down time on his 3-D screens. 4. This is 2010, not 1910! What about auto start of the wheel to prevent the filter disk from being burnt? This is pathetically easy to do on any of these units and something I will do once the units are out of warranty if M.I. doesn't come up with some sort of retrofit. All one has to do is wire across the start switch in the unit to a spare set of contacts in the NA-10, CA-21, eCNA-10, etc. automation. Why was there never a terminal strip or jack on the side of the unit to facilitate hooking this up? This is my list... IMHO the units and company still have a way to go to get there but the communication I have had so far with Paul has been positive(as have been past experiences with paul)... lets see what if anything comes out of it. Addendum: Due to the bad weather here I did not get pictures yesterday. However I do have one from when I had to repair work to the lens the next day. This incident did some major damage to the barrel of the lens and it would no longer zoom. Luckily no damage was done to the front glass element. I was able to repair the barrel although it took considerable time... and the lens is now working perfectly again. At this point since M.I. is going to take care of this under warranty other pictures are not really necessary. Mark  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-24-2010 11:35 AM                     Yes they are necessary Mark. If you are going to come on here and make a huge stink about something claiming you have pictures of this disaster, back it up.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-24-2010 12:07 PM                     I'll still be more then happy to post them although I don't feel it necessary since M.I. has completely acknowledged the incident here.. The photo above is one of them. When I get over to the shop I'll take pics of the damage to the wheel and the unit but that isn't going to happen today. Oh... and where did I claim to already have pictures... I said I can go take pictures of the stuff. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-24-2010 01:10 PM                     Please note...the MI unit does have an idle speed for when sync is lost as well as the running speed...so there is no need for the disc to be burnt via douser. Now, if you are going to turn the disc off (manually) then you are going to have problems with user error. MI has address the subject of automating the unit, somewhat. The current unit (the only one I'm familiar with) has a set of automation terminals. It provides for raising/lowering starting and stopping the disc. We have programmed it into an eCNA-200 (same programming applies to eCNA-10 and eCNA-5) to automate the positioning and operating of the MI. As such, it is more automated than most Real-Ds since NO user intervention is required. All of our Show Start 2D cues lower the unit, all of our Show Start 3D cues raise the unit and start the disc. I wish the unit had discrete start and stop commands rather than a toggle...too easy for things to get out of sync and it is a needless situation. For the record...we have had one disc that was not properly balanced and it shook the unit pretty good but it did not destroy. I don't know what MI does to balance the discs but at the speeds they are turning, it doesn't take much to get one out of balance. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-24-2010 04:21 PM                     Steve... It's only the first show of the day that actually matters. The booths get powered up by perhaps the manager and then some one else arrives at work and starts the show... if they do not know to put the unit in run, even slow standby mode... or if they forget... then the disk gets burnt. There is also a new version 2.2 firmware that will be installed in these units as well in the next few weeks. They're good units... and it sounds like they have done some work towards doing what should have been done in the first place. The unit here had ~.05 run out on the actual face of the hub before the disk exploded. Now that run out is almost zero... go figure. It's been knocked back into alignment!! You can imagine how voiolent the explosion of that wheel was to dent the lens barrel the way it did. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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