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Author Topic: Master Image VS. Real D John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-24-2010 04:39 PM                     So Master Image have sent out the new wheels with every new unit for 12 months. The cinema replaced a new version of the wheel with an old, used and super-ceded version of the wheel and it exploded. No winder she didn't sue MI, but I'll bet there's a case there for something against the cinema operators. I think the only real ongoing concern is that all MI owners and operators are informed of the need to change to the new wheel if that hasn't happened already and that MI should replace the old wheels free of charge to those cinemas still running them and warn them to destroy the old ones. Perhaps that's already been done.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-24-2010 05:17 PM                     Believe it or not...my original reason for automating it was to get the wheel to stop completely as well as take the human factor out of it. With the wheel spinning...even in idle it is still a dirt collector. I would also love having an automatic cleaning mechanism...a special mode that would slow the disc WAY down and have a set of cat wiskers that came in and lightly knocked the dust off. -Steve  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-24-2010 05:28 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag I would also love having an automatic cleaning mechanism...a special mode that would slow the disc WAY down and have a set of cat wiskers that came in and lightly knocked the dust off. That would be a neat addition. Even a super slow 'jog' option would be great so you could do that yourself without disengaging the whole thing.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-24-2010 06:19 PM                     Despite numerous and loud cautions about NOT cleaning the disc while it is spinning...and without admitting it...I have had to change a disc due to just that! The evidence was all over the place...the microfiber cloth looks like someone was using it to weld it was so burned...the disc was scratched pretty good too (concentric and spiraling scratches). I figure the cost of replacing the disc will be the ultimate teacher for them on that! I only hope they don't get hurt before they really learn! -Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-24-2010 08:10 PM                     @ Steve... Unfortunately most of the time is is more then just loose dirt... grime and grease also build up on the filters. Even in buildings with ventilated poppers. I suspect the same will happen over a much longer time period even with Dolby 3-D filter wheels. @John... More importantly the old Acrylic disks should be destroyed with a hammer even before they are discarded! Then there is no way they could make their way back into use. In this case it may have been put back on because it was the only one they could find laying around. The parts cabinet is kept locked up in that booth for very good reasons. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-25-2010 03:09 AM                     considering that several people at Master Image are ex Imax they might want to think about using the old antistatic bars or the static masters to remove the static buildup that attracts the dust in the first place  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-25-2010 03:54 AM                     Gord, these things spin at such a high speed they MUST attract the dust and dirt. You can look at the beam and see the dust being sucked in to it. That's why I'd like to know why there cannot be optical glass on either side of the image area. Solves two big issues I have with the units...having to clean the discs three times a week and not sucking the dust in in the first place.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-25-2010 05:06 AM                     Everyone knows what this cleaning schedule means in real life - most systems are NOT cleaned often enough and suffer considerable image quality issues. And IF you clean them often enough, the wheels will also suffer from cleaning scratches. So much for MIs superior 3D quality. They should send out new wheels every 2 months on a fixed schedule. Another issue on RealD: A few mention the possibility to burn a MI disc when it is not rotating in front of the lens. Thinking about a RealD Z-Screen that is never rotating, but positioned the same, do we expect it to last any longer? Does anyone know wether Z-Screens have already been replaced due to blinding issues? How do we measure and control 3D separation efficiency on the various systems to detect degradation? What about Dolby wheel aging and color fading (think about where the Dolby wheel is actually operating). I would think that Dolby wheel color fading can be compensated to a certain amount by the projector color correction schemes during regular calibration intervals. But the stereo separation may still suffer - only that it is vastly higher on Dolby 3D in general than for RealD/MI and as such probably won't show in real life. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-25-2010 10:17 AM                     Almost all original Z screens are still in use today. The few that are not are the result of site closures. Considering that you can hold your hand directly in front of a D-Cinema projector lens that is running a 6kw lamp shows how well filtered the light is. and it takes quite some time to burn a MI filter wheel. If a Z screen is installed properly the image passing through almost fills the entire screen. As a result any heat is well spread out. There is also a fan inside the Z screen to provide some extra cooling. Hopefully Dolby wheels won't fade... They are not supposed to. But ifthey do it's uber expensive to replace it.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-25-2010 10:50 AM                     If anyone has a Z-Screen in operation for a longer time - would he please look at it without the projector running to see wether there is any segmenting/shadowing between inner parts usually lit and any outer parts not lit by the image? Would be interesting to know if something is visible. This thing still eats a lot of light, it's physical or chemical structure is probably more complex than that of a MI filterpatch, so you would assume quite some aging. Only that the area lit by the image on a Z-Screen typically is a lot larger than the area usually lit on an MI wheel (am I right there?), which would bring down the local energy density considerably. But still, consider a 3D only screen running all day... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-25-2010 11:40 AM                     Yes, I am well aware... they all are doing it in the server to eliminate dual inventory. There are Dolby's, Doremi's and GDC's that I install and maintain. The Z screen is just two LCD screens stacked. The advantage it may have over the plastic filter wheel is that it is encased in optically coated glass. If you watch the Z screen while it's processor boots up it does some wierd things rather quickly. I've been happy with the results from both polarized systems. The Z screen is just lots more fool proof and very easy to keep clean. Dolby 3-Dee is still the best overall to go with if you can get the customer to front all the $$$$. Stacked 3-Dee is still the ultimate. Mark  |  IP: Logged David Stone Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Hornsby, Sydney, Australia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 11-27-2010 04:22 AM                     Hi everyone, I agree 100% with Mark about some people's agendas clouding their judgement. You read some articles and wonder why some projectionists make comments about equipment they didn't buy, but their theater's owners did, that seem in someway impact on their lives. What really counts for me is what the punter thinks and I have never seen a forum where the punter is complaining about ghosting in a RealD presentation.I have never had acomplaint All systems have their pros and cons, but in my view RealD has the advantage that it is their equipment and they replace it if it fails at no cost to me...does any other system after warranty provide this ? RealD also provide web content,lobby posters for free, and soon exclusive content for RealD customers such as Carmen 3D which opens other markets. My arthouse competitors either don't have RealD or no 3D at all. Cheers, David  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-27-2010 08:45 AM                     'Ghosting' is something the average punter is not explicitly aware of. Like a lot of other aspects in 35mm oder digital presentation. Yet projectionists and buying owners should have an eye on these things. Few people have ever complained about classical 2D projection making them feel sick. 3D on the other hand is constantly under fire. One should make sure that your own theatre is not part of the 'bad 3D experience' lot. Not that I say RealD gives bad 3D experience. But given the high profile of DCI specifications and calibration, 3D systems are currently installed mostly without proper QC. Who has ever seen a channel separation measurement after an install? We have recently learned that a certain common antireflection coating on portglas reduces polarization efficiency considerably. Screen properties for polarized screens? Just too many variables in my opinion. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-27-2010 11:35 AM                     quote: Carsten Kurz Just too many variables in my opinion. Think Dolby 3-D!  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 11-27-2010 11:35 AM                     1) Not having a complaint doesn't mean not having a problem. Lots of people simply don't complain even when there's a noticeable problem. 2) If I go to your theater a few times and then to another a few times, I decide which one I like better. I don't neccesarily decide based on which one I complained about the most. 3) I used to work at a location that had RealD and for a while I worked there and for my current employer that has a Dolby 3D house. So I compared the image of the two watching the same movie and the Dolby unit was significantly better.  |  IP: Logged

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