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Topic: Small theater operators weigh digital conversion

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 11:16 AM

quote: Scott Norwood

And what about filmmakers who actually want their work to be exhibited on film?

I predict they will carry about the same amount of weight as they do with the VOD thing.

quote: Steven J Hart
We can't afford $1000/month payments. (Or any payments for that matter - thank God we're debt free)

Steve - how are your prices? There is a theatre here in Montana that's charging $3.00 (!) for recent-run movies, plus they're only open weekends. They'll never be able to convert doing that.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-21-2011 12:03 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
There is a theatre here in Montana that's charging $3.00 (!) for recent-run movies, plus they're only open weekends. They'll never be able to convert doing that.

Here in Bakersfield a sixplex discount house recently went all-digital (4 with Real D XL systems, rewired for full 5.1 channel sound in all auditoriums, fixed masking and reseated, yet their admission is pretty low ($1.00 before 6pm, $1.50 after 6pm, 75 cents all day Tuesday, $2 upcharge for 3-D). Because their 35mm presentation was CRAP, there has been a major upgrade in presentation quality.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-21-2011 12:26 PM

Bakersfield is a fairly big city. The discount six-plex there might have high enough attendance and concessions business to justify the conversion to digital and addition of RealD on 4 screens. Does this multiplex have daytime and evening shows everyday?

A lot of theaters in really small towns don't have nearly as many showtimes as theaters in larger towns or cities. Gotta have enough customer traffic to generate the cash flow needed for a digital conversion.

The Vaska bargain theater here in Lawton typically plays two different movies per evening with one showing for each. Matinée shows typically only take place on the weekends. I don't know what the theater clears in profit but I imagine it probably isn't remotely enough for a digital conversion. There's been occasional rumor over the years about a 5.1 digital sound upgrade but that hasn't happened. I think the theater could be seriously hurt by Hollywood studios' VOD plan. Eliminating 35mm prints in 2013 would likely equal the Vaska closing that same year.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 04-21-2011 12:30 PM

Yes, but Bakersfield is also significantly larger than every city in Montana. The theater Mike's referring to is simply going to have a much smaller base of potential customers to begin with.

The Bakersfield theater can do it simply because they have enough foot-traffic to make up for all those costs even at the low admission. A theater in Montana wouldn't be so lucky.

edit: Beaten to the punch.

And yes, lots of smaller town theaters usually don't run as many shows. I recall relatives being surprised I had been working weekdays at the theater since they only had matinees on the weekends ever (except maybe summer).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 04:56 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Incorrect Scott, there are already independent theaters that bought into T3D and are being told that they cannot play various movies if they do not play them in digital 3D. We are currently speaking with one such person.

Ditto here on that one. And it first happened to me at a really slow tiny 6 screen operation I service in Nevada. The IS another theater in this town that has one digital system and as a result Disney told my customer no more content at all untill you can play it in digital and or 3-D digital. Hence, I am adding 3-D digital screens and equipment as fast as I can get it and install it. I just sent in another P.O. today for three systems at two locations and there will be another 18 systems going in after that at three locations. So if you have competition in your town you may very well be cut off from a couple of studios unless you have digital. Another interesting factoid is that these three digital systems are going in on Technicolor 3-Dee equipped screens... Right now it's lookin like Paramount is no longer interested in supporting the T3-D system or they'd be offing up 3-Dee prints of Thor to these sites. Disney never would support it even though the installed base of theaters is just shy of 500... My point of view on this is that I could care less if I install/service film systems or digital systems. I have to accomodate my customers needs and those needs are digital at the moment.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
There is a "deal" with DeLuxe. If it is available on 35mm/3D, you are guaranteed a print IF you are qualified to book such a print anyway in 2D.

@ Louis:

It isn't up to the lab what the theater gets to show... it's totally up to distribution. If there is a digital projector in your town or if you already have one then they are going to have it playing on that digital projector no matter what, where or who. It's becomming very obvious that even the studios do not want to deal with film prints any longer...

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 06:43 PM

quote: Chris Slycord
Bakersfield is also significantly larger than every city in Montana.

Yeah, Bakersfield is about triple the size of Billings, the biggest city in Montana....yet it's still considered a small town!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 08:05 PM

Mark said "Disney told my customer no more content at all untill you can play it in digital "
i dont think they would try that here that is restraint of trade

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-21-2011 08:16 PM

Mark: Once the booking is made, IF 35mm3d is available, it is guaranteed that the theatre will get one if you are a Tech 3D subscriber. Louis

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 08:36 PM

Well there you go...."once the booking is made."

Our booker just last month was telling me that one prominent VOD-supporting film company had promised him 14 film prints of some title on a Friday, and on the following Monday only 6 of those prints were available. (Digital prints were available though.) So...those bookings never got made. No print = no booking.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2011 10:22 PM

Louis.... The problem here is they already know you have a digital system in X, Y, X and A complex's for the last several yers and they are refusing to book anything BUT DIGITAL. Do you really think any company would spend 200 grand just to run content on a few screens if they were assured they could get T3-D prints for systems they already have? Of course not! Perhaps this is just a problem with high grossing locations which these are but on the other hand It's beginning to look like at least Paramount does not want to support T3D any longer or film for that matter. If a complex has one digital system Paramount is demanding that Thor play on that system, if you can't do that they will tell you to go F.O. and play nothing. Disney of course never did jump on board T3-D for what ever reason... Those single Digital 3-D systems will still be tied up running Thor and they wouldn't be able to run Pirates which we all know is going to be huge. Disney WILL NOT give a site that has just one digital system a 35mm film print period. They insist that their major product be run in digital. They also want that 3-D digital system for Pirates that is tied up with Thor...

I do not dislike T3-D at all, it's superior in many ways to digital... these studios apparently just don't want to be bothered with film or there is a fued going on between Paramount and Disney... although pretty unlikely I think. It is also obvious that the studios are undergoing an attack of digitalmania at the moment and what they want is what they get or you get nothing at all.

BTW: All of my customers have raised their prices just slightly... .50 to .75 to help offset the cost of digital projection. Smaller theater owners may have to do the same thing in order to equip. That small increase will pay for a majority of the equipment over a ten year period.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-21-2011 11:35 PM

I just noticed in the Feature Info & Trailers forum that the 3D DCP of Thor is only 95GB in size. Why is it so small? It has double the frames of a normal 2D DCP. A 2D extraction would be down to the size of some Blu-ray encodes. For instance Saving Private Ryan on Blu-ray consumes the entire first 50GB disc and all the bonus features are on the 2nd disc. The same goes for Minority Report.

WB already has a history of distributing DCPs much smaller in size than those from other studios. This makes me wonder if the movie studios are quietly pushing to get rid of JPEG2000 and just deliver Blu-ray discs to theaters. Or they're looking to do away with shipping hard drives, beam all the movies by satellite and compress the hell out of the movies to save money on satellite transmission bandwidth.

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Steven J Hart
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: WALES, ND, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 04-22-2011 12:34 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Steve - how are your prices? There is a theatre here in Montana that's charging $3.00 (!) for recent-run movies, plus they're only open weekends. They'll never be able to convert doing that.

We charge $6 for adults and $4 for under age 13.

According to the 2010 census we LOST 728 people in our County in the last 10 years. That does not sound like so much until you hear about the percentage. It's about a 17% DECREASE in population over ten years. Mind you, the town we are located in only lost about 5% population. Our nearest competition is an hour's drive away (AND a nasty Carmike 3-plex). The people here still want to go to the movies, it's just that there are fewer of them. Our Grosses have not gone down significantly in the last ten years. (certainly not 17%!). I know we are just a tiny little theater, but we still want to show movies! (and the folks still living here want to see them!)

Steve

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 04-22-2011 01:07 AM

Tech 3d: I have spoken to my Paramount rep about Thor and Panda 2 in film 3d. What he is hoping from me is 3 weeks 3d then switch to 2d film when Panda 2 opens up. With the huge 3d line-up this summer, most studios will take whatever they can get. I will be shocked if any Tech 3d studio turns down a location.

Since Technicolor makes $1200-$2000 per movie booked using their system, they have some reasons to insure that those prints get made IMHO. Another reason to expect 2 more years of film 3d prints.

Who cares about the number of screens that get converted nationally. The important number, is how many chains are being converted? Name me any chain that averages at least $80,000 per screen in ticket sales (that should be the top 2800 or so locations that play mostly mainstream movies) that has NOT announced 100% digital conversion plans.

That conversion might take longer than September 2012, but as long as significant progress is made; the studios I expect will be patient.

Also keep in mind that for most mainstream movies, the top 2800 locations (where probably 90% have plans in place to convert) account for 95%+ of ticket sales.

Why would anyone expect any decrease in pricing on digital equipment with such a high built-in demand for conversion (and to a large degree the studio vpf's)? Now prices should drop in a couple of years after all of the chains have converted since there will be a large supply mechanism in place. How much might prices drop???

Also, $1000 per screen per month is a big deal for probably 800-1000 locations otherwise we all would be converting right now! It is to me.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-22-2011 05:48 AM

As to having to play such-and-such a title on the single 3D digital projector...that is not new news. One of my small-time customers has a digital 3D screen in each of his complexes...as Mark said...once that was known to the studios...in order to book a title, some studios on certain titles demanded that screen and NO film would be made available. Had he not put in the single digital projector, he could have had the film print! And this was over a year ago!

It will be moot very soon...he will be converting 100% digital in just a couple of weeks.

On the Tech-3D front...their prices are even lower...I believe $900/month is the current low-price.

-Steve

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-22-2011 08:36 AM

So not only are the studios flippant about the burden convertion places on the exhibitor, but now they PUNISH the guy who does a conversion for not converting ALL his screens? WTF? Seems to me not giving him film for his other screens because he converted one or two is certainly a restraint of trade issue. He should persue it. Not only are these SOBs basically telling him that they demand he convert ALL his screens, not just one or two, but the are actively hurting him finantially for converting what he has. Do they dare do this with chains that have plexes which are not fully converted? And where is the deaf dumb and blind NATO on issues like this, other that banging their "you'd better or you will be sorry" drum?

And not for nuthin, but there was a very precise and important question that Louis asked here that has been opined to death but not answered --

quote: Louis Bornwasser

Has ANYONE got a definite quote (from anyone other than John Fithian) quoting a date that a particular studio will no longer offer 35mm?

And yes, other than Mr. John The-Sky-Is-Falling,-Oh-My Fithian who was clucking like a scared chicken that we were going to wake up and read about the end of print availability in next morning's paper for about 10 years now, -- what other RELIABLE STUDIO source has suggested they will end film distribution in 2013 or 15 or any other date? The studios certainly are vocal enough about their other idotic plans like VOD and shrinking vid-windows. If they and a date-certain on the end of 35mm print availability, where are they up front about it?

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