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Author Topic: Small theater operators weigh digital conversion
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-24-2011 02:14 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that 20% is certainly legitimate in this area. In many cases in this area the increase is more like 30 to 50%. But that does not hold true in all areas... seems like "captive areas" see the highest increases. Areas with many 3-D installations are going to have a much longer paybvack time on the equipment. One customer paid off his equipment in 8 months just from the increased revenues!!! Another reported that the payback on 4 systems at 4 locations was ~15 months...

Mark

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 04-24-2011 05:50 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,
So why do not hear more about these stories? So you know of a operator who paid off all of his digital costs (100% for all screens) in 8 mos.?

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-25-2011 04:04 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
If these film projectors are so amazing, why can't theaters seem to keep the image coming out of them steady?

It's not always the theatre. I can have the image bouncing around like mad on screen yet pull out the plate and the sprockets are steady as a rock.

Lab work today just sucks.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 04-25-2011 05:27 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One customer paid off his equipment in 8 months just from the increased revenues!!! Another reported that the payback on 4 systems at 4 locations was ~15 months...
Mark,

Are you talking about just a single room with 3d or entire complexes?

For a $70,000 upgrade to pay itself off in 1 year the theater would have to sell 112,000 tickets or revenue of (average ticket of $9) of $1,080,000. At that the theater (if using Real 3d and charging a $2.50 3d upgrade) would be keeping $.625 of that charge. ($2.50 - 55% to studio - $.50 to Real).

I can agree that the theater might of lost 20% of tickets sold if there is another 3d screen nearby.

Needless to say that this is not a small revenue location at $1m ticket sales in one room. This is a fairly significant location easily top 1000 probably top 500 if not better.

Unless I am missing something here.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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 - posted 04-25-2011 07:26 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed the sites I speak of are extremely busy sites here in Utah. believe that the total ticket sales for this chain is right around 4 million tickets a year. And no, this was just for 4 systems...

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

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From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
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 - posted 04-29-2011 05:11 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is $65-70K a reasonable guess for a single screen conversion that would need no construction work?

100' throw
33' wide scope screen.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 04-29-2011 06:21 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
it is reasonable weather it is accurate or not is something only someone bidding on it can tell you.

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

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From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 04-29-2011 06:31 PM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
if that was a case here,i'd be ordering 2 for our single screener [Smile] that sized screen and cheapest acceptable pj would be 70k Eur (cca 100k USD) around here.

no 3d of course.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

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From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
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 - posted 04-29-2011 06:37 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I should have worded that differently, is the $65 to 75k quoted in a few posts in this thread reasonably accurate?

We have had a hard time getting the ear of our current tech that does digital installs, with unanswered emails etc., and the other tech I spoke with does not do digital anything for some reason.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 04-29-2011 08:08 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam - that's in the neighborhood of what ours cost a year ago, and we are fairly close in specs to you. (93' throw, 30' screen) The only construction we needed was a port window and a base to raise up the projector about 10" off the floor. The biggest "extra" cost here was the electrical.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

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From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
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 - posted 04-29-2011 09:16 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Mike, just what I was looking for.

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Jonathan Goeldner
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From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 04-30-2011 12:01 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
but do all studios, specifically the smaller indie ones, that release independent and foreign films release their product 'digitally'??

Case in point, Landmark once stated they'd be doing a nationwide installation of Sony 4K units, yet as far as I know there's only one at E Street (DC) and none at their Bethesda location - all the films at Bethesda have (and always) been 35mm.

What happens during film festivals? I perceive and note that the films at various Washington DC film festivals are pretty much 35mm. (AFI's Silverdocs seems to be the exception, where it swings more to digital projection)

if the industry wants to think everyone's on the same page on digital conversion .... uh? I really beg to differ.

Even though the major chains, specifically AMC has begun a more aggressive conversion, it's still a guessing game on when and which theaters get new DP units - Tysons is half way done. My neighbourhood Mazza theater, four of the seven auditoriums are digital but the two largest screens (and one smaller auditorium)are not ... ?!? I asked the general manager why that was the case, one was the fact FilmFest had booked Mazza as a festival venue, screens 1 and 4 (and 3) can only playback 35mm - he also noted the screen size of 1 is another factor - my retort 'well, if the huge Uptown screen has a Christie DLP unit, then screen 1 can', he agreed and said that will probably be the outcome.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
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 - posted 04-30-2011 03:02 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The major studios will determine the length of time that film is available not the independents. Independent films makers contribution to film prints is insignificant and the prints will get horrible expensive when those are the only prints made. They will go digital at that point.

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

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From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 04-30-2011 03:04 PM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
most indie films in festivals here already come on 'digital' as in there is more dcp, digibeta and hdcam then 35mm.

the cost for indies to get a DCP off of an HDCAM is also increasingly smaller than getting a blowup to 35mm and having an extra (one!) festival print. ever wondered how many festivals in the past year for instance rent 5+ HDCAM decks for periods of two weeks, not to mention extra fullHd projectors, extra staff... getting 35mm for film festivals as the "extra" is and will be cheaper, and theres going to be less and less...

lots of film festivals are already just eliminating tapes altogether for instance and doing standardised dcp/mxf mpegs for projecting, to avoid hassle with dozens of video standards, aiming to get all on one or two formats, period.

its really funny reading about people just NOW realizing that a full digital transition is mandatory in order to stay in the business, its even more funny that these are the people from countries which have the highest incentive to go digital, have far the lowest cost of digital equipment, have no real distribution bottlenecks, have more than adequate infrastructure/IT backbone to get it all installed and running,...

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Mark Hajducki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Edinburgh, UK
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 05-01-2011 09:55 AM      Profile for Mark Hajducki   Email Mark Hajducki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bajsic Bojan
lots of film festivals are already just eliminating tapes altogether for instance and doing standardised dcp/mxf mpegs for projecting, to avoid hassle with dozens of video standards, aiming to get all on one or two formats, period.
I can see this happening fairly quickly for film festivals and independent films.

From the film-makers perspective making a DCP version of their film will allow it to be shown in far more venues than a tape version. Once encoded copies can be made easily and cheaply (USB flash drives or portable hard drives are far cheaper than HDCAM tapes)

quote: Jonathan Goeldner
but do all studios, specifically the smaller indie ones, that release independent and foreign films release their product 'digitally'??
In the UK the (late) UK Film Counsel funded install of digital projectors, and the DCP encoding of specialist content has resulted in the majority of art films being available digitally.

Given the limited number of prints made, and the extra requirement of subtitling foreign language films, specialist distributors will be able to make significant savings with digitisation.

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