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Author Topic: NEC 1600 Problems Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2016 11:35 AM                     quote: Leslie Hartmier NEC doesn't have anyone particularly versed in the older projectors That was because NEC had no D-Cinema anything at all except the equipment and depended solely on Wrong International for all support and training. Knowing that alone should answer volumes! Not sure that Wrong is even going to be around very much longer at the rate they are doing... Mark  |  IP: Logged Leslie Hartmier Expert Film Handler Posts: 100 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jul 2012 posted 08-19-2016 12:24 PM                     I would tend to agree with you Mark, as that is pretty much what NEC has told us, right from the engineers down. You have no idea how excited they were when they found that we had a prototype NC2500S (when I called for some insight and quoted its serial number, I was variously told that a) I was mistaken, b) I was lying, c) I had the Holy Grail, and d) I just couldn't be right because that serial number cannot exist.) A fan died in it that exists in no documentation, in a place that according to the docs has no fan. I had to use manuals from two different projectors to maintain it. Not in one manual? Check the other one. Good ol' Fan 10. Can't even upgrade it to the last version of the 2500S firmware, as it has a special firmware, and updating it will make for a very heavy doorstop, which NEC and Tri-state said will not be able to recovered from. Still, I miss that machine now... poor zombie. (I had to install a PJDIV board from a 2500S and though it still works great, there is no way to get the green taillights to work - forever orange) Leslie  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-19-2016 03:11 PM                     Before it was part of NEC it was part of Digital Projection who decided they couldn't go anywhere with a D-Cinema line so sold the license and early designs (2500 and 1600) to NEC. Digital Projection still makes DLP projectors though. There also existed a console mount NEC 1.2K DLP projector. Some where I have a picture of that. A friend in Chicago had or may still have one that was used as a rental in the early days. Mark  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 08-23-2016 01:51 AM                     I had the tech remote in to the projector this morning and despite updating the software and firmware versions, the problem remains. The next step is him ordering a replacement board and someone flying across the country to install it. Just as well the outdoor cinema season does not start until November or I would be in a right pickle! I hope Steve is able to sort out the problem with the 1600. Perhaps he will post here in due course and let us know how he went. Digital: Film  |  IP: Logged Steve Wilson Expert Film Handler Posts: 109 From: Paoli, IN, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 09-07-2016 07:15 PM                        DLP Ack Fail (12, 07) Hi Peter. I am sorry to have been so slow at seeing your post. To fix my problem, My friend, an Electronics Tech at my drive in theater. He took all the main boards out of the center of the projector. We cleaned the contacts with contact spray and then reinserted the boards. Wiggling the contacts as he reinserted the boards. We have not had any problems since we did that! It is the recommended fix for the said error code listed above. I have had a good summer and my machine is working well. I do hate the fact that I do have a projector that is an Orphan! Peter, here is another idea too. My booth has a dehumidifier in it. One night I let the humidity get up to 80% before I dumped the water tank. Its not yet piped to the outside. This high humidity did cause me a lot or problems one night before we reseated the boards. These machines do not like high humidity at all. In fact I know better but was too lazy to dump the water. Its a mistake I never make anymore either. Thanks Peter for your insights on your NEC 1600. Despite what has been said, there are hundreds of them in use around the world. Keep posting your progress here. Also, One other note. Make sure and replace your network cable running from the server to the projector and clean the contacts on both units!  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 09-07-2016 10:41 PM                     Thanks for your reply, Steve. The NEC guru from Sydney is coming over to Western Australia next week and will probably be servicing my machine on Thursday. He will first check the boards and clean and re-seat them before trying the new board as they indicated that they don't like to replace boards that aren't faulty. Of course, if it turns out that it is actually a faulty board and they didn't have a spare it would be a bit of a waste of time so just as well they will have one on hand. 4000 Km is a long way to come without a contingency plan! I will post the results to the forum after the service. Fingers crossed it is as you have suggested. In any case it is good to know that I will have the Aussie expert on hand to service my machine.  |  IP: Logged Manny Montes Master Film Handler Posts: 270 From: United States Registered: Feb 2010 posted 09-08-2016 08:39 PM                     Is it common for most other countries to have similar distance for their techs? I feel pretty lucky that the worst issue I've ever had with digital had me down for a day while a tech flew in from the next state over and the part was shipped via courier and arrived with a nice older lady in a minivan.  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 09-11-2016 12:37 AM                     I can only speak from my own perspective which is as a single screen independent cinema owner/operator among primarily large cinema chains with their own technical staff. Western Australia is very much isolated from the rest of the continent by distance, it being the largest State but containing only about 11% of the total population of Australia, with the majority living in the south west portion of the State. It is a 2 day drive (allowing for an overnight stop on the way) to the capital city of the next State. Driving at night is fraught with danger, mainly from the vast numbers of kangaroos that gather on or near the road. There appears to be limited knowledge of the NEC projector in this State, and as far as I know, there are very few of these projectors in use in WA. I understand from conversations with a rep of one of the cinema chains that at least one of their local technicians is to receive training but will have to travel to the Eastern States to receive the training. It is of real concern to me that my support options are limited and this may well, in due course, drive me to purchasing a Christie, or some such, where local support and components are readily available. That said, I do think the NEC is a fine projector, which I’m sure Mark would agree with.  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 09-16-2016 10:15 PM                     The Guru from the East appeared and brought with him a local tech for whom the Guru had come over to train in the ways of the NEC projector. It was a good opportunity for the local guy to be present to see the repair process on a series 1 projector. The first thing was to v-e-e-e-e-ry carefully remove the Texas Instruments board and clean the contacts and then v-e-e-e-e-ry carefully replace it. This did not make a difference, despite trying a replacement board, resetting the projector and updating firmware. It eventually came down to a faulty FFIB board which the Guru had spares of and resulted in the projector losing the error message and springing back to life. Whilst I don't yet know what the cost will be it is substantially less than if I had needed to replace the TI board. My support guy in Sydney can now call on the local tech when necessary so as to avoid the need for coming over himself when remote access does not fix a problem. I was told that the projector itself, whilst several years old now, has done very few hours and should work well for several more. Apparently this model was a particularly good projector, as good as, if not better, than some series 2 machines. I have a spare 2.5K Ushio lamp that has only done 11 hours which apparently is ideal for the 9 metre screen (The existing 4K lamp was installed for 3D which is not worth the hassle of screening). I also had been given a set of new filters which I can install after the existing ones have had a wash and re-use.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 09-19-2016 05:40 AM                     Peter, GOOD that you have the NEC 1600 back up & working...I know exactly how you would have felt..Just like I did when I had a corrupt screen advert DCP that crashed the server each time it was played. Took a long while to find that & remove & remake the offending DCP & no more issues but it cost me the weekend sessions which was no real big deal $$$ wise as the weekend was rather wet so very iffy at best. You will find that the 2500W lamp is only good as a stop gap as you will be severely under lit on screen particularly in scope. The 4K lamp was not only there for 3D sessions but to give correct screen illumination on scope & even flat as scope needs 2800 watts & flat I think was like 2400 watts. Using the 4K lamp meant that you were under running it which affords you the facility of being able to increase the lamp current as the lamp ages to compensate for the drop off in light. 3D was always a bit light on as far as illumination went but I only ever ran the Flat versions of the 3D stuff screened so the light was a tad better. But a white screen & Dolby 3D is in my view the best of the bunch as pin sharp edge to edge, EVEN screen illumination unlike the silver screen shows & extremely good 3D effect...things just appeared to hover mid air between the screen & your seat in a very natural way. I really enjoyed observing the 3D interaction between patrons & the movies I ran in 3D..also enjoyed the experience myself even though having to wear 2 pairs of glasses. Cleaning a couple of hundred Dolby glasses by hand I thought would be a drag but was dead easy if you let them sun dry as I did every time. Just touching up the odd spots on the lens with Isopropyl as needed as they were packed away. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 09-19-2016 06:33 AM                     Lindsay, I was only going on what the NEC guru (you know who I mean) said to me the day that he serviced the projector, based on the screen size. He was also taking a look at the lamp and noticed that the yoke was actually sitting quite low which meant that the lamp was facing on a downward angle. I will see if there is any increase in output now that he has adjusted it. Peter  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 09-21-2016 03:11 AM                     Interesting that the lamp end at the yoke was pointing downwards as when I changed the lamp from the 2500Watter to the 4Kw lamp I had to rotate the yoke as otherwise the larger diam of the neg end sitting in the yoke kicked it well up. Made sense to rotate it so that it sat on the same sort of diam bit as the 2.5Kw lamp did...the 4K lamp is way longer. Once the lamp was installed it looked pretty well parallel to the base of the lamphouse as the 2.5Kw lamp did. Once you start doing the alignment the lamp is ON of course & thus the lamphouse is all closed up & the rear door on else the interlock stops any lamp ignition. Went thru the laid down process of peaking the lamp to give the highest possible reading when in that applicable screen. The reading with the 4K lamp in went WAY higher than the 2.5Kw lamp could ever muster...suggest you have a look at the logged readings of both lamps in the NEC manual I left on site. After that I never went back inside the lamphouse apart from giving you a cursory look at it in the early days of handover. At that stage you were not particularly interested in seeing how the lamp alignment screen was accessed or even the process of actually doing it apart from me showing you the tool kit I had assembled & the 3 controls that needed to be tweaked to get the lamp spot on. It is possible that when the lamp was tweaked to give the MAX reading on the laptop the rear of the lamp was thus jacked up & I am not entirely sure that the yoke post is actually adjustable up & down...mostly likely would be but no longer have a manual to refer to be able to confirm that fact. Others here can confirm that..I do not know for sure. I doubt that front of the lamp being a wee bit low would have much overall effect on the light output as the mirror is fixed & by moving the rear of the lamp about by those 3 adjusting screws the arc flame would be in correct alignment in relation to the mirror focal point. If you recorded what the end result was after this last adjustment & compared that to the result when the lamp was first installed you will get a clue as to whether the light has either gone UP or Down. Periodically I would go back into the lamp adjust screen & check that the figure I would then see was much the same as when it was installed. That was done twice in the season I ran the NEC & on each occasion it was exactly the same as the day I installed it. It would be a good idea to familiarise yourself with that screen & from time to time check & maybe record the figure IF the illumination level as displayed has deviated. In my case as the figure had not moved I never bothered to notate that fact...I knew what was going on & was happy with the on screen light. It is now approaching 4-5 years since the screen had a coat of paint & had I still been running the site I would have painted it this season...that is something for you to work out if it is now looking a bit dull. A new coat of paint does wonders as the screen sits there in all weathers & slowly but surely does dull down a lot. You have the info as to what paint to use and the source of it..... choice is yours. BTW the screen is 9.6M wide & when I tried a NEC900 prior to opting for the 1600 the light from the 900 is scope was only JUST OK on light prints. Any dark moody prints it was bloody awful. At installation the measured light was WAY UNDER spec using the original 2K lamp. The measured light with the 2.5K lamp was JUST OK on Flat & not good on scope PLUS the lamp had to be run at full power. That would not give me any room to counter lamp ageing. The installer, based upon his measurements, recommended that a 4K lamp be used & we set the scope light to be around 2.8Kw...BUT since installation NO further actual screen light measurements have been taken. However based upon what my gut feeling told me from the many many 35mm screenings I did there indicated to me that the 2.8K estimated figure was rather close to the mark. Every time I did a repaint of the screen surface the pix came up nice & bright again...it does sorta creep up you as the screen dulls off & you get a pleasant surprise when the screen is repainted.  |  IP: Logged Peter Foyster Expert Film Handler Posts: 102 From: ROLEYSTONE WESTERN AUSTRALIA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 09-21-2016 06:25 AM                     Yes I was watching when you last adjusted the lamp and it looked just fine at the time. The Guru did find that the screws holding the yoke would not tighten properly and we had to pack them with washers. Perhaps over time the yoke has dropped because of the screws; I don't know, I just accepted what he said, he being the Guru and all. Actually I was quite happy to get a 3 to 4k lamp when replacement time came around, I probably will anyway, but not the Chinese ones that are being promoted, regardless of what they may say. It would be interesting to hear peoples comments on the lamps now that they have been around for a while, though it probably needs to be in a separate post. There was a forum discussion about them some time ago; maybe it is time to revisit it. Based on your comments last year regarding the annual screen maintenance (wash with sugar soap one year, repaint the next) I do believe that it is in need of a repaint but it will have to wait until next season as we simply don't have the finances at the moment. The lamp is running at about 72% so there is room to increase the brightness if necessary. It still has 300 hours so it will easily last the season.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 09-21-2016 06:26 PM                     I Chose that version of 4K lamp as it had higher lumen output to get the best possible pix for 3D. Trade off is life is only 600 hours so if you have now just clocked up 300 hours then possibly 2 seasons are left in it. The other 4K lamp offered had less lumens but MORE run time hours which if I recall correctly was something like 1500 hours. Better to stick with a 4K lamp as at 3K you are running the lamp @almost 2900 watts...so almost full bore & thus little room to tweak for lamp ageing. There was not a lot of price difference which is balanced out by more consistent screen light as the lamp approaches warranty change out time. To my way of thinking a 3K lamp would be struggling to keep the screen light acceptable as the 1000 hour mark came along so if one had to change it well before warranty time its simply false economy....all for a couple of hundred bucks. The Koorda DI 1600 has a 4K lamp installed running at 3K & the screen light is very good as compared to how they struggled with carbon arcs & long focal length lens in the 35mm days. Their lamp will last years running their monthly double bill sessions. Must pop open that lamphouse & check their yoke in case that one has also worked loose ..IF that is the cause. Their machine has had 3 or 4 over temp shutdowns since being installed as they had gotten going before the bio renovations were fully completed so the bio A/C unit was struggling on hot nights after 45C days. Quite possible that high operating temps & then very cold nights can make things not quite done up snug loosen off & move. Digital has made their shows so much better & the 2 ladies that now run it would never have coped with 2 changeover machines & carbon arcs  |  IP: Logged Steve Wilson Expert Film Handler Posts: 109 From: Paoli, IN, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 10-13-2016 11:49 AM                        When we set up my projector, the install guys did put in a long 1500 hour Plusrite 4k bulb! A few months later, I wanted more light, so I went with the 650 hour high output Plusrite bulb and the light increase was quite a bit and I was more happy with the light output so far. I would rather pay a bit more over time and have a brighter light on my screen. My 1600 projector is just a tad bit small for my 67 foot screen, however, I am happy with the new high output bulb. This High Output bulb is actually the bulb which NEC specs recommended for this lamp-house over the 1500 hr bulb. * *  |  IP: Logged

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