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Author Topic: the future of 4K Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 07-13-2016 02:43 PM                     quote: Bobby Henderson Is that based on info from the Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets forum? Or is it a complete view of all titles playing in North America? It's based on movies that have played in our network of theaters; you can infer all wide release and some smaller and indie films.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 07-13-2016 03:01 PM                     I would tend to think that there will be more 4K theatrical releases going forward as consumers demand native 4K content for their 4K flat screens and Ultra HD Blu-ray players.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-13-2016 07:00 PM                        How many people are "demanding" that though? There are a whole lot of people around today who can't tell (or don't care about) the difference between SD and HD. I think Ultra HD is going to be a tougher sell -- it's going to be something that'll creep in gradually as people replace older sets.  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 07-13-2016 09:26 PM                        quote: Mike Blakesley How many people are "demanding" that though? There are a whole lot of people around today who can't tell (or don't care about) the difference between SD and HD. I think Ultra HD is going to be a tougher sell -- it's going to be something that'll creep in gradually as people replace older sets. This might turn out to be a case of the demand coming from the production side, rather than the consumer side. Now that Amazon is streaming in 4K Dolby Vision, and UHD-BD is on the market, the filmmakers themselves may start to take it as a point of pride that *their* movie be treated just as well as the *other* movie. Dolby for one is making a full court press to court the filmmakers themselves to adopt Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos for the theatrical releases, with an obvious downstream play for streaming and disc delivery. I predict that Moore's Law, coupled with evolving industry best standards and practices, will result in most content within a couple of years being 4K with EDR as a matter of course, both theatrically and for home video.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-13-2016 09:27 PM                     4K DLP only takes a hit on contrast, not color. I see us putting in more 4K as time goes on but 2K remains the bulk. However, that is normally a cost/size thing. The only thing that seems to have gotten cheaper on the 4K side of things are the servers. Dolby never charged a premium for 4K decoding and now on the Doremi products, they have ended charging for the 4K license there too. GDC still charges for it. Projector wise, I have not seen a decrease in 4K for years.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-13-2016 09:45 PM                        What would be the best way to improve contrast? Larger chip? Something else? Harold  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-14-2016 02:14 AM                     Barco claims a higher contrast figure on their Laser/Phosphor machines. Also, they now have a high contrast Laser version of their Laser projector. I believe the 'normal' flagship machine is rated 2500:1, the HC version is rated 4000:1 - trading some brightness for it of course. But it seems the path has been set to improve the mediocre (2K)/dreadful (4K) DLP contrast level. Which is good news.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-14-2016 04:15 AM                     There shouldn't be any improvement on the Laser Phosphor machines. They use the same light path (as it leaves the lamp area and have the same issues trying to mitigate stray light. You'd have to ask someone that is on the design side as to how to improve contrast. As I understand it, one of the problems is with the smaller mirrors not being able to direct the light cleanly away when the pixel is not at 100% on. This is why that the S2K projectors suffer contrast like 4K since they are using the same sized mirrors.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-14-2016 04:47 PM                     Well, that was what Barco (not a reseller) told the audience just before a demo. In fact the official specifications of the 15C say 2000:1, while 15CPL is rated 2200:1. Nothing massive but every little helps! The picture looked a little better indeed. I agree that that sounds weird as the light path should be the same. I do not really know how they can do that - unless they trade some light for contrast, maybe adding a cat eye somewhere.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-14-2016 06:31 PM                     Well I guess they need to improve contrast a little bit for marketing as well. As the whole brightness calculation changes due to the lack of xenon-type degradation, there certainly is room for it. With a fresh xenon lamp after a few thousand hours of operation, you could still get max brightness. With the LP, you will end up at 50% +/- and need to buy a new laser source. The way they put this on the Barco pages means that the 13.500 lumens spec is initial brightness, not average? Well, in typical environments, that would be about 10 years of operation anyway. Did they say something about the warranty for the laser source? NEC quotes 30.000hrs operating life, but only 10.000hrs warranty... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-14-2016 10:15 PM                        4K seems to have caught on more for restoration and re-release titles than for newly produced movies. Sony's archival restoration DCPs appear to be almost all 4K, as are a good many of the other studios' arthouse/rerelease output are as well. My impression is that a rerelease of a classic is far more likely to be a 4K DCP than a newly produced movie.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 07-14-2016 10:30 PM                     ^ not only from Sony, but Janus, Rialto's 4K restorations (which have become the forefront to eventual Criterion bluray releases) have been encoded as such on DCP's. and with the rumor of 4K UHD releases from Disney the longest hold out from a major studio is being hinted (rumored) that 'Finding Dory' as their first release as such. @ Mike Blakesley: Variety had this story in regards to UHD sales versus bluray sales: "New format growing four times as fast as Blu-ray Disc a decade ago Studio executives are cheered by early Ultra HD Blu-ray sales numbers. A total of 45 Ultra HD titles have been released on Blu-ray Disc since March — and according to Home Media Magazine market research, consumers bought more than 228,000 discs as of June 24. By comparison, Blu-ray Disc, launched in June 2006, moved just 57,000 units in the comparable time frame. Ultra HD is a new format that not only offers viewers four times the resolution of HD, but also includes high dynamic range (HDR), which produces brilliant highlights, vibrant colors and greater contrast on compatible displays. Observers expect the new format to trigger a resurgence in overall Blu-ray Disc sales, which already are tracking up 3% for the year in units and 6% in dollars, Home Media Magazine market research numbers show. “2016 will be a phenomenal year for 4K Ultra High-Definition (UHD) TVs — driven in part by the market introduction of next-generation technologies — with shipments of 4K UHD displays projected to reach 13 million units (an 83% increase),” the Consumer Technology Association said in its latest research report. CTA expects revenue from 4K UHD displays in 2016 to top $10 billion, a 65% increase from last year. “The new Ultra HD format with HDR allows us to give audiences the best-quality picture and sound available at home today,” said Ron Sanders, president of Warner Bros. Worldwide Home Entertainment Distribution. “With Ultra HD HDR televisions now widely available, filmmakers and consumers alike are excited about the way we are able to present our films to home viewers. It is truly the closest thing to what the filmmaker intended.” At this point, there are only two Ultra HD Blu-ray players available, from Samsung and Panasonic, but that situation is expected to change — and fast. In June, the 10th birthday month for the Blu-ray Disc, Microsoft announced its new Xbox One S games console is Ultra HD Blu-ray and HDR compatible, while Sony said it is developing an upgraded version of its PlayStation 4 gaming console that will offer Ultra HD 4K resolution and richer graphics. Other CE companies are expected to roll out players of their own in the coming months. In January 2016, the UHD Alliance unveiled a consumer logo to identify devices, content and services capable of delivering a premium experience to an Ultra HD market expected to grow eightfold by 2019. The “Ultra HD Premium” logo is reserved for products and services that comply with performance metrics for resolution, HDR, peak luminance, black levels and wide color gamut, among others. The specifications also make recommendations for immersive audio and other features. These advances in resolution, contrast, brightness, color and audio combine to deliver a premium Ultra HD experience in the home. The UHDA includes most of the major Hollywood studios, consumer electronics companies representing the majority of today’s 4K Ultra HD TV market, cutting-edge developers of enabling technology and top players in content distribution. The association in April 2016 expanded the range of products that can bear the Ultra HD Premium logo with the announcement of certification and logo licensing for Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc players. Next-generation immersive, object-based sound formats also will be delivered via the Ultra HD Blu-ray specification. Additionally, with the optional digital bridge feature, the specification enhances the value of content ownership by embracing the notion that a content purchase can enable consumers to view their content across the range of in-home and mobile devices. The specification also mandates all new Ultra HD Blu-ray players be capable of playing back current Blu-ray Discs, giving consumers access to the vast library of more than 12,000 titles currently available on Blu-ray Disc. Thomas K. Arnold is editorial director of Home Media Magazine."  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-15-2016 02:28 AM                     quote: Carsten Kurz As the whole brightness calculation changes due to the lack of xenon-type degradation, there certainly is room for it. Hi Carsten, I'm not following you, contrast is white/black. If white goes down, black goes down too. What is your thought on the subject?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-15-2016 07:41 AM                     They offer less brightness degradation in shorter intervals, so they could sacrifice some more brightness for some increased contrast. I guess that is the reason they offer the 15CLP with less spec lumens (13.500) for the same screen size than the 15C with xenon (14.500). They can also design a cooling system that needs less air pumping through the unit, hence longer filter change/cleaning intervals. And that's what they're after. Less visits to the booth (if booths at all). - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-15-2016 02:21 PM                     I see what you mean. If it is as you said there would be a cat-eye or similar in the retrofit kit - assuming the retrofitted projector can enjoy the same increase in contrast ratio?  |  IP: Logged

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