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Topic: the future of 4K

James Biggins
Film Handler

Posts: 31
From: Leicester U.K.
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 02-22-2017 11:14 AM

quote: Adam Martin
You will all be excited to find that the 2D version of The Great Wall is 4K while the 3D version is 2K.

No Adam, I'm not. Not in the least.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-22-2017 12:57 PM

quote: Frederick Lanoy
Yes but what about the 3D ? Does anybody know if Dolby Cinema is able to do 4K 3D ?

Dolby Cinema is supposed to be able to do 4K 3D, even as high as 60fps. But it seems like most Dolby Cinema theaters just show everything in 2D.

quote: Leo Enticknap
And also, unless it's a humongously large screen, most audiences simply can't see the difference between 2K and 4K.

For projected imagery in a commercial movie there are multiple variables at play which can muddy a viewer's perceived difference between 2K and 4K. Soft focus ruins most of the difference immediately. If the DCP has aggressive levels of compression that will destroy detail too. And then just how much of the movie is really, truly native 4K resolution? Lots of funny business can happen in production and post production, like CGI rendered only at 1080 HD and then blown up to 4K.

I can certainly see the difference between 2K and 4K on a decent UHDTV set, provided if the TV set is showing a rare piece of genuine native 4K content.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-22-2017 01:29 PM

So far Dolbly Cinema is pretty much irrelevant. Its in less than 50 locations according to their web site and I sure as hell am not going to seek out an AMC Theater to go see it at. No matter how good this system is AMC will screw it up some how no matter what.

Mark

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-22-2017 05:22 PM

quote: Frederick Lanoy
Yes but what about the 3D ? Does anybody know if Dolby Cinema is able to do 4K 3D ?

Yes, both IMAX Laser and Dolby Cinema can do 3D in 4K. IMAX Laser is able to do 4K/3D at max 60fps, while Dolby Cinema can do 4K/3D at max 30fps.

As both master their own DCPs, they are not limited by the fact that so far there is no official DCP spec for 4K/3D. They can do whatever their hardware allows.

How many of their sources/masters actually justify the use of 4k, I have no idea. I guess the number is small, but growing.

With previous 3D systems, their low brightness, contrast, separation figures, ghosting, etc., I never felt 4k was worth the effort to have with 3D - too fuzzy overall to actually see 4k.
Now with very large screens, higher contrast and brightness laser projection, the excellent stereo separation of the color separation 3D, I guess 4k makes more sense.

- Carsten

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-22-2017 07:20 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
So far Dolbly Cinema is pretty much irrelevant. Its in less than 50 locations according to their web site and I sure as hell am not going to seek out an AMC Theater to go see it at. No matter how good this system is AMC will screw it up some how no matter what.

Sounds like someone has a grudge against Dolby.

Actually AMC has opened 56 of their own Dolby Cinema screens in the United States so far. They have another 15 locations announced; those will will probably be finished by summer. In 2015, when AMC originally announced its plan to install 100 Dolby Cinema screens in the United States the company was going to spread it over a 10 year period, first converting former "ETX" and "Prime" houses. Last summer AMC announced it was accelerating the 100 screen roll out to be finished by the end of 2017. I'm thinking they may be going into 2018 with those installations. More screens may be added after the 100 screen program is complete.

As to whether Dolby Cinema is "irrelevant," the concept is certainly building out faster than IMAX with Laser. Worldwide there are 38 screens equipped with IMAX' new 4K laser process. And only 13 of those screens are located in the United States.

My primary complaint with Dolby Cinema is more theater chains in the US besides AMC should be offering it. The concept seems like a natural to build into a Warren Theaters site. Plus a Warren version of it might feature proper masking around the screen and curtains.

If I'm going to pay a higher premium price to see a movie I'm going to expect a few things extra. Most premium priced theaters don't really do that. They're just throwing the movie image onto a somewhat bigger screen and giving you the same old 5.1/7.1 surround sound, maybe with the sound cranked up a bit louder. At least the Dolby Cinema screens provide a few check list items (Dual 4K 6P laser projection with Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos surround sound, power recliners).

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 02-22-2017 09:25 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
Yes, both IMAX Laser and Dolby Cinema can do 3D in 4K. IMAX Laser is able to do 4K/3D at max 60fps, while Dolby Cinema can do 4K/3D at max 30fps.

Why would Dolby Cinema be limited to 30fps if they are using dual projectors (or are they only using a single projector)?

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Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015

posted 02-22-2017 09:45 PM

I've been to three Dolby theaters and none of them were any good.

The TV Academy's theater is Dolby and it has white hexagonal lines going through the image on any highlights.
The AMC Burbank and El Capitan theaters have the same problem, which is clearly being able to see the DLP imagers grid.

Also, the Dolby cinema's don't have special content made for them. They play regular movies, not designed for HDR display. Where IMAX tweaks all their content pretty heavily, making the experience more integrated. I've seen a few Laser IMAX movies and that system is beyond leaps and bounds better then the Dolby system. It has richer blacks, it has warmer colors as well. The dolby system is harsh looking, it's not as pleasing to watch as the IMAX system.

I assume most of these issues are early days of new technology. Clearly defocusing the projectors will help slightly, but the lack of HDR content isn't going to change. Doing post for HDR is a nightmare because you need to have HDR equipment in the post house that matches the theaters, which is very expensive. If Rec 2020 becomes a practiced standard, we may see things change as it's dynamic range is higher then our current P3 standard, which is to say the least antiquated.

In terms of 4k... yea it's a joke. Netflix, Amazon and a hand full of internet distributors are really pushing for 4k, but the studio's still dictate how things are delivered and even though almost every movie today is made in 4k or higher, finishing in 4k is an expense a lot of them aren't willing to make, even with the cost being not much more then 2k. It's a real shame because there are a lot of 4k cinemas, plenty to merit a 4k release, it just doesn't happen.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-23-2017 06:24 AM

4K/30 is tops for all IMBs except the Barco ICMP (Alchemy). It is a bandwidth limitation so even in a 2-projector situation, those projectors are both topped out at 4K30.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-23-2017 07:58 AM

quote: Lyle Romer
Why would Dolby Cinema be limited to 30fps if they are using dual projectors (or are they only using a single projector)?

As Steve says. Dolby Cinema uses (modified) Christie laserprojectors in a duo-style configuration, thus they are limited to the capabilities of Christies IMB-S2 and an ICP. They can not choose any server. With their Alchemy, Barco got rid of the ICP bottleneck. The Alchemy/ICMP drives IMAX laser systems.

I don't see it as a problem (Dolby Cinema can do 120fps/2k 3D) for now.
Christie could do more if it was economically useful.

- Carsten

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 02-23-2017 02:25 PM

quote: Lyle Romer
if they are using dual projectors (or are they only using a single projector)?

"ACTUAL PHOTO" !
Here's a photo from one of the screening rooms I work at.
Dual projectors are on the left; Laser Racks are on the right.

quote: Tyler Purcell
Also, the Dolby cinema's don't have special content made for them.

Many(but not all) major movies have specially mastered versions for Dolby
Vision. At the screening room pictured they only play DV mastered content.

This room has a 3rd projector...a 4K Christie for
occasional non-Dolby Vision and "alternate content" use.

(Due to space limitations, the 4K Christe is at 90deg to the
screen,& shoots the image through a right-angle mirrorthingy)

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 02-24-2017 01:55 PM

I visited the closest Dolby Cinema to where I live one time. Its at the Barrywoods AMC in Kansas City and it use to be an ETX/Prime room. Ive seen many movies in that theater but only one since they changed it to a Dolby Cinema. The movie was Inside Out and from the get go I could see that it was terribly out of focus. A shame since I drove 4 hours just to see and experience the theaters makeover. Blacks were very deep and colors were almost too saturated but the focus had me fuming thru the whole feature. The audio was great tho.

I knew complaining to the kids working there would do nothing so I had sent an email into corporate. They said thanks for bringing it up and they'd look into it. No offer of refund or free passes. I have not been back since.

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