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Author Topic: When to swap a bulb? Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-03-2015 08:25 PM                        I have to confess to being a little surprised at Steve's consistently bad experience with Osram. I've never used their digital bulbs, but I spent around a decade using their film bulbs, and probably went through several dozen 1.6kW and 2kW units during that time. Apart from the one that exploded shortly after a flood in an extremely humid booth, none of them ever blew up and most lasted to double their warranty hours before starting to develop a flicker. Maybe the alternatives would have been even better, but that buying decision wasn't mine to make.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-04-2015 03:01 AM                     I worked at another multiplex where we had 4 Barco 20C units and we were using OSRAM XBO4000DHP bulbs. My only bad experience with these bulbs is that they were hard striking after 800 hours and one bulb took out a unit's SPG (igniter) due to multiple strikes. After all of these issues with Osram, we finally swung over to USHIO and their DXL-40BAF bulbs and issues of hard strikes disappeared. One of our sister location lost two reflectors - one in each module- due to Osrams letting go before warranty.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-04-2015 06:17 AM                     Leo...I've had Osrams blow up in the box in shipping (both film and digital)...I've had an Osram XBO-3000W/HTP arrive with its anode rolling around in the envelope yet not exploded (and they wanted us to file a claim with the shipper, not them). They suck and they have sucked for a long, long time. Every lamp manufacturer has their good and bad batches. I'm not expecting 100% all of the time. But with Osram...35-years of personal experience with them have driven me to the conclusion that they are just an unreliable lamp with way too much hassle on warranty. If they work for you, more power to you. Mind you, I've tried a great many lamp brands over the years...when I was with a chain, we would put lamps "head-to-head" in identical systems and tried to draw conclusions as to which performed the best...including down to the cost/hour. I've tried X-Cel (Marble), Conrad-Hanovia, Osram, Christie (Ushio), ORC (eventually now ASL), Superior Quartz, Goldberg (more explosive than any of the above) and Phillips (LTI). Christie/Ushio isn't just a little better...it is a LOT better than the alternatives. I had a customer that only wanted Osram but was disappointed with the life with them, particularly in one of their consoles. They let me put a Christie in there and it made him a believer and has been on Christie/Ushio since. Of the low-cost lamps, honestly, ASL has been the best we have used. There have been a few explosions (depends on the model lamp...they seem to do better with some than others or perhaps they had bad batches) but they are wonderful to deal with and don't fuss on warranty. Some of their lamps stand toe-to-toe with Christie/Ushio...the XM6000HS/G, for instance, puts out identical light to the CXL-60SC and lasts at least as long. The XM4202 is also a winner with a lot of light for a 4KW. I haven't played too much with their digital lamps though. They only have a couple of lamps on the Barco list and I don't think any on the NEC certified list (and Christie only recognizes their lamp, officially). Thus far, Ushio (Christie) have really just proven themselves to our customers as a hassle free lamp (about 99% of the time...there is that odd one that doesn't go the distance).  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-04-2015 10:47 AM                        Maybe the pattern we're starting to see is that Osram's smaller bulbs are OK (e.g. the 1.6es and 2s), but the bigger ones simply aren't as consistent or reliable as the competition? At my current workplace, we use Ushios in our two NEC digital projectors: 6kW in one, and in the other a 3kW for 2-D projection and we swap in a 7kW one for 3-D shows, plus whatever comes built into the cradles of our iS8-2K in our smallest screen. One pair of film projectors uses 6kW Christie bulbs and Osrams (4kW) are in the other. I'm not sure if these are a conscious choice, the only brand our supplier carries in those ratings and configurations or just the way things have always been done. I have noticed that while the Ushios and Christies tend to make it to warranty hours and still look good, the Osrams quite often don't get that far before starting to flicker. As I say, I never had that problem with the much smaller Osrams I used in England in the '80s and '90s. But there again, I haven't been here long enough to be clear in my own mind whether this is a consistent, long-term pattern, and if it is, whether the bulbs are the only relevant factor.  |  IP: Logged Paavo Mardi Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Tartu / Estonia Registered: Sep 2008 posted 02-04-2015 12:53 PM                     I also have bad memories with Osram. First two Barco projectors we had came with Osram and both lamps failed before warranty hours. Last year 4 Barco 20C units were installed in my booth. Barco communicator showed that all lamps are Osram. But these lamps kept running and all passed warranty hours. I already thought that Osram is now worth to buy until I pulled the first lamp out - Ushio, Made in Japan. Sorry for offtopic.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-04-2015 01:14 PM                     Sorry...Leo...the 2KW Osrams sucked too...Osram will just never touch a Ushio on either quality or longevity. Sure you'll find that odd one that may be atypically good/bad but if you are a betting person, only a fool would take the odds of Osram versus Ushio.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-04-2015 07:29 PM                     Just something happened when Osram got mixed in with Sylvania and Osram just went downhill after the merger. True: ORC/Perkin Elmer/ASL equals very bad medicine. Had one new LTi that also had the anode that broke off rolling around in the envelope as well along with another new LTi with the quartz broken around the seal and the gas has leaked out.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 02-06-2015 12:57 AM                        We always replace bulbs at or close-to rated lifetime, then immediately order a new one to go into the cupboard. When it arrives, we dispose of the used one. Last week we installed a new bulb which ran full Wattage but showed just 7.73 ft lumens for Scope. Never had a low-lumen bulb before. So we had to go through the whole instal number again with the newly-arrived bulb which is perfect. The low-lumen bulb is physically fine so it will just have to play an absolute emergency role.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-06-2015 04:50 AM                     A nearby small 5plex uses all OSRAM, 3*6kW and 2*3/4kW. Never had issues. All Kinoton projectors. I asked them a few times wether they would consider USHIO, but they replied 'Why?' You can imagine, how many bulbs they run through with all these systems (all 6kW running Dolby 3D). The projectionist says they have no trouble getting to the warranty hours. KINOTON in germany always promoted OSRAM bulbs, for what reason ever... Maybe their lamphouses deal better with bulbs. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-06-2015 06:45 AM                     Osram is the lamp of Germany, isn't it? I could see it promoted on that reason alone. I normally like German cinema stuff (Kinoton, ya know)...but not for lamps and it isn't like I didn't give them their due. For me, the best always wins...It doesn't matter if it was Kinoton projectors or Christie/Ushio lamps.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 02-06-2015 08:23 AM                     Maybe it's like with the French and their wine. They drink all the good stuff themselves and the rest of the world has to do with the inferior stuff that's leftover afterwards . But well, yes. Osram is a household name around here and in general a well respected manufacturer of bulbs and lamps. Osram usually isn't the cheapest choice, but also not the most expensive. Ushio/Christie usually is the most expensive option, but that surely may also depend on your volumes and negotiation skills.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-06-2015 08:59 AM                     Cinema Technology Magazine published lab visits for all major Xenon manufacturers and you could see how different their manufacturing processes were and how delicate Xenon manufacturing still is. Quite interesting read. Here's the one covering OSRAM: OSRAM lab report Here's Philips in LA: Philips lab report I can't find the one on Ushio right now. OSRAM can't be as bad as Steve suggests - they would have left that market behind long ago - with the same replacement and burst coverage warranties like Ushio and Philips, no Xenon bulb manufacturer can deliver substantially bad quality. The site I mentioned has piles of Osram only boxes in their booth, they run through 15-20 bulbs a year, it's an owner operated business, they would change to Ushio if they wouldn't be satisfied with OSRAM. They can't be the only lucky ones. That said - if we'd operate Xenon machines, I would opt for Ushio, too, as they also offer a nice product variety. Hmm, as a matter of fact, we do, as we have no choice ;-) - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-06-2015 11:55 AM                    I had good luck with Osram film bulbs for 35mm at my screening room and ran them until there was arc wandering flicker. They were 1600W but run at the lower end of current range. One of the bulbs in place when I took over had something like 5000 hours on it and was running fine. I inherited a couple more pairs of Osram bulbs when I took over and later, given the lesser risk on a film lamphouse, even successfully put in some picked up cheap on eBay. With digital I went with an NEC NC1200C and have been running a 2000W Osram film bulb (XBO 2000W/HS OFR). It'll soon be at 1900 hrs (over about 2.5 years) so time to replace. I have another Osram on the shelf ready to go in but discussion here makes me wonder if I should go buy an Ushio. It does not seem like I would have much to gain from a digital bulb. We have too much light as it is and have the aperture in place to enable keeping the current up to levels good for the bulb. Greater hours might be nice but at my level of usage that's hardly a factor and if digital bulbs undergo the greatest change or risk of hard or non starts then maybe I should just stick to a film bulb. So the question would be whether to hope my luck with Osram holds out or maybe spring for a Ushio film bulb like a UXL-20SC. Any difference in colorimetry if I change from what I've been using?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-06-2015 12:08 PM                     I would throw the Osram in since you've already bought it and buy an Ushio as a spare. Just watch the Osram closely. I could see them fighting a warranty due to it's age, so I would not leave it on the shelf as a backup to the Ushio. It's usually quite the struggle to get Osram to make good on their warranty replacements.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-06-2015 12:14 PM                     Steve, Ushio makes 1200, 1500 as well as 2000-watt lamps for your projector. The smaller lamps come with a 3000-hour warranty (100%) too. Since they are more efficient, your electric bill should go down too. If you already have the other lamp, and it has warranty in it...go ahead and use it (tough to throw away free money). Otherwise, I'd go with the smaller Ushios.  |  IP: Logged

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