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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Topic: Star Trek (2009)
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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 05-11-2009 01:03 PM
SPOILERS! DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE!
quote: Stu Jamieson
I've read the word "reboot" a bit in reference to this movie,is this officially a reboot of the franchise? I presumed it was just a prequel.
Creatively, it's a reboot. Story-wise, it's actually a sequel.
Think of it this way: Everything that happened from ENTERPRISE through NEMESIS played out exactly as it did. Eight years afer NEMESIS, Nero and Spock go back in time to the year 2233, which is 33 years before Season One of the original series. When that happened, a new timeline was created where anything can happen, regardless of what happened in the original timeline.
Because of that, this new movie may eventually lead into the original series, or it may not. Lots of stuff is already different from the original series. Vulcan is gone. Kirk has taken command of the Enterprise 8 years earlier than in the other timeline. There's a lot more than that.
The writers have said that they plan on taking certain elements from the original series and twisting them into another direction when you least expect it.
So, it's a reboot in the sense that they can do whatever they want, but it's a sequel in the sense that Spock has lived his life as portrayed in the original series, and this is where he's at now.
quote: Lyle Romer
A comment on some of the discussion going on about the coincidences I assumed that "Old Alternate Timeline" Spock knew exactly where "Young This Timeline" Spock would send Kirk and that's how he knew where to go to find him. I don't think it was destiny. Remember that he said something to him about "after today's events" or something like that indicating that he knew what happened on the ship. I guess you can nitpick that since he was from a different timeline he couldn't know and all kinds of other things but such is the downside of time travel plots.
Old Spock definitely would not know what Young Spock would do because those events were a direct result of Nero traveling back in time. In Old Spock's timeline, Kirk wasn't even stationed on the Enterprise at that point.
As for the "today's events" comment, he was referring to the destruction of Vulcan.
I've written a rather lengthy (and rather nerdy) essay on the problems I have with the movie as it relates to canon. Here it is, for those who are interested:
As much as I love J.J. Abrams' new STAR TREK movie, it sure has its share of problems.
Some are of a storytelling nature. This movie relies heavily on coincidence. Whether or not that was an intentional nod to the idea of destiny or just a bit of lazy writing doesn't really matter. Either way, it's a problem, and one which could have been drastically reduced.
Other problems are things that only the nerdiest of Trekkies would ever notice. And while I understand that it is more important to tell a good story than to appease Trek canon, they could have done both.
After skimming through Denise and Michael Okuda's STAR TREK CHRONOLOGY, I'm fairly certain that most of these continuity errors could have been avoided without sacrificing anything major in terms of story.
Now, I realize that any number of events could change based on Nero and Spock traveling back in time. But that seems like the lazy way out to me. I want to see cause and effect. So while there may have been some chain of events which caused Chekov’s parents to get it on four years earlier than they did in the original timeline, I want that shit explained.
With that in mind here is a list of the problems that I have with STAR TREK, and how I would have avoided them.
The film starts with Nero's ship appearing in the year the 2233, and destroying the U.S.S. Kelvin. When Captain Robau is killed, George Kirk assumes command. As he sacrifices his life, his wife, Winona, gives birth to their son, James, in a shuttlecraft.
While this may be very poetic and beautiful, it is highly coincidental that Nero travels back in time and space through a black hole created by Spock, and ends up in the exact place that Kirk is born. While the story hinges on Nero killing Kirk's dad, this did not have to occur through an act of heroism on George Kirk's part, and at the exact moment of Kirk's birth. That sequence could have played out more like the opening of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, with some sort of reveal that one of many casualties resulting from Nero's attack was George Kirk.
The death of George Kirk is what causes significant changes to the timeline for the next 25 years. Without a father, Jim Kirk's life loses direction, and he enters Starfleet Academy four years later than he did in the original timeline. Luckily, the destruction of the Kelvin also caused the location of the shipyard where the Enterprise was built to change from San Francisco to Kirk's hometown of Riverside, Iowa. It's also fortunate that, for some reason or another, this also happens to be where new recruits gather before departing for Starfleet Academy in San Francisco.
Call me crazy, but wouldn't it be ever so slightly more plausible if, upon the death of her Starfleet officer husband, Winona Kirk would hook up with another Starfleet officer who might be stationed at Starfleet Command in San Francisco? This would give reason for her to relocate her family, where young Jim could interact with new recruits who are naturally in the town where their training will take place.
Of course, the other problem with Kirk witnessing the construction of the Enterprise in his hometown is that the Enterprise should have been built eight years prior to when those scenes take place. There is no reason why Kirk needs to see the Enterprise being built, and there is no reason why this needs to be the story of the Enterprise's maiden voyage.
When I first heard of the plan for this movie, I was most skeptical of how they intended to include all of the cast members in this story. In particular, Uhura, Chekov, and McCoy did not appear until after WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE.
While it is possible that Uhura was on the Enterprise at the start of Kirk's five-year mission in 2264, it's not very likely. The communications officer in WNMHGB was Lieutenant Alden. But she could have been a lower ranking officer. Who knows?
Chekov is even less likely, since he would have only been 19 years old, but I suppose that is also possible.
The one that I found hardest to believe was McCoy. The doctor in WNMHGB was Mark Piper, suggesting that McCoy had not yet been assigned to the Enterprise.
Much to my surprise, The inclusion of McCoy works perfectly in the new timeline, and actually makes his relationship with Kirk more believable. This is due to the fact that George Kirk's death inadvertently postpones Jim Kirk's entry into Starfleet Academy for four years. This allows Kirk's time at the Academy to coincide with McCoy's, and explains how they became such close friends. McCoy's promotion to Chief Medical Officer is explained in the movie by the death of his predecessor in the battle at Vulcan.
Uhura's inclusion in the film works too. Much like Kirk and McCoy, Uhura is also a cadet during the movie. Uhura's age was never established in the original timeline, so the filmmakers were able to mold her backstory to suit their needs.
However, Chekov has no place in this film. Based on original series continuity, he was born in 2245. That would make him 13 years old at the time of the film, not 17 as the movie states.
I can understand fudging facts a little bit if you really want him on board the ship. But I don't see what he's good for. His character is portrayed as a Wesley Crusher-like boy genius to explain away his presence as ship's navigator. But once on board, he doesn't do much of anything, least of all navigation. His one shining moment seems like it would fall more into the realm of physics. Which leads me to my next complaint.
There's nothing wrong with having Sulu aboard the Enterprise in the new timeline. Much like Uhura, his age was never established over the course of the series, and there's no reason to think that he isn't an academy graduate and officer.
However, he did not begin his career aboard the Enterprise as a helmsman. In WNMHGB, Sulu is a physicist. So why not make him a physicist in this movie, giving him all of Chekov's stuff to do? And as for the helm, why not use THE CAGE's helmsman, Lieutenant Jose Tyler?
Speaking of CAGE continuity, it doesn't really make much sense that Spock is Pike's first officer in the new timeline. In THE CAGE, which takes place four years prior to the film, Spock is the science officer. He doesn't become first officer until Gary Mitchell is killed in WNMHGB.
It would have made more sense for Number One to still be Pike's first officer at the start of the mission in the new movie, with Spock as science officer. Then in the battle at Vulcan, Number One could be killed, making way for Spock to take command.
On the whole, Spock's backstory is very true to the original timeline. It seems that most changes to his character will result from the events in this movie, most notably, the destruction of Vulcan.
The one problem I have with the portrayal of Spock in the movie is his romance with Uhura. As much as I loved this storyline, it doesn't make any sense how the destruction of the Kelvin would have altered events to a point where this relationship would occur. It was a nice touch by the filmmakers, but ultimately not necessary, and so it should go.
The only other minor gripe I have with changes to Trek canon is the inclusion of Delta Vega. Nice touch, but it doesn't make any sense. Delta Vega's location in the galaxy is problematic. So why not just ignore it, and name the planet something else?
Delta Vega is also responsible for the most ridiculous series of coincidences in the entire movie. Okay, so the planet is near Vulcan, and that's why both Kirk and Old Spock end up there. Fine. I can also accept that Kirk is shot down to the planet and lands within 14 miles of a Starfleet outpost. It makes sense that Spock would intentionally do that so as not to completely leave Kirk all on his own.
I'm even okay with Scotty being there. Not much is known about his time in Starfleet prior to joining the Enterprise, so who is to say he wasn't on that outpost?
But Kirk randomly running into a cave that Old Spock happens to be in which is also mere miles from Scotty's outpost? That's stretching it a bit. At the very least, they could have had Old Spock find the outpost on his own, which is where he would eventually meet up with Kirk. Isn't it coincidence enough that Spock would find the outpost on his own?
So there you have it. I feel somewhat guilty for harshly criticizing a movie as fantastic as STAR TREK. But the fact of the matter is that it should have been better. Nearly all of what Abrams had set out to accomplish could have been achieved without sacrificing continuity. True, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of the movie, but this level of attention to detail, along with a decreased sense of coincidence, would probably have made this the best Star Trek film of all-time.
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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-12-2009 09:58 AM
I saw Star Trek on the Giant 78" Wide Screen at Denver's Continental Theatre on 5/11 at 7:30.
The 35mm image was bright, clean, sharply focused (except during the Nimoy scenes) and I *think* it was very steady... It was hard to tell for sure because of the epileptic cinematography.
The sound was loud, clear, and widely separated. The (sparse) audience was quiet.
All in all, it was an excellent presentation, with only one complaint: There are some vertical lines (Stains or seams?) at the top of the screen that are distracting during bright scenes.
I thought the film was only ok. The only time I was really "engaged" was during the opening scenes w/ Pa and Ma Kirk. Everything else felt very by-the-numbers. I never felt any real sense of danger, urgency, yearning, fear, awe, etc.
I didn't regret seeing it, but I didn't have any desire to ever see it again. I had more fun watching Khan on the same screen earlier this year.
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-12-2009 09:41 PM
OK, finally saw this one and it is a good movie in its own right for the most part. I am a "casual" Star Trek fan. But it would have been better if it was an official reboot through and through. Instead, they thrashed the story around so it could include Nimoy and connect itself with the original series. Now we officially have a fake Star Trek. A real reboot would have just been a different Star Trek, not an officially fake one. Also, there would be less to explain. Like, for example, how Christopher Pike knew so much about Romulons and their planet Romulous. In season 1, humans and Romulans had never seen the other, but here they know all about each other even before the timeline is altered into the fake one. This really bothered me, but if it was a real reboot with no connection to the official Star Trek cannon, it wouldn't have. There was no need to make this a time travel saga. Because they tried to tie it to the original series, it makes the movie more confusing as a whole especially to those not familiar with the franchise. They did it wrong. Maybe that's what happens when they let the person responsible for one of the shittiest TV shows ever take control of the movie. That's right, LOST is shit. I said it, now go cry in your corner. This movie is not as good as Batman Begins.
I won't be picking this up on Blu-ray or seeing it again.
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