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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: Cellphone jammers to be installed in French cinemas
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 10-17-2004 11:45 AM
quote: Leo Enticknap
The other thing about doctors is that they are not on call 24/7 (not in Britain, at any rate).
Many are on call in the states.. Here, almost all of them are in private practice, and, especially, depending on their field, could get called at any time (i.e. ob/gyns, heart specialists, trama specialitsts, etc).
Additionally, there are other memebers of society that may need to be gotten ahold of in an emergency or are on call 24/7. People such as police detectives, police command staff, police reservists, volunteer firemen, fire department command staff, fire department reservists, some military personnel, public officials, specialized serch and rescue team members, Civil Air Patrol members, etc...
Just the public saftey advantages of cell phones FAR outweighs the annoyance of their misuse.
Further, just becaause France does something, does not mean we all have to follow... Hell, had we always followed France's lead, the world would be speaking German.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Mark J. Marshall
Film God
Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 10-17-2004 02:18 PM
quote: Jim Ziegler
Always worked for me..
So you've permanently ended this problem?
My brother is an EMT, and when he is on call, he doesn't go to the theater. When he's not on call, he keeps his pager and cell phone with him anyway so he can monitor what's going on, but when it's time to go in the theater, they're off.
My dad is a maintenance guy for an apartment complex who is also on call 24x7. While no one has ever died from a leaky roof, broken pipe or over flowing toilet AFAIK, he still makes arrangements for someone else to hold the pager when he's planning to be away from the complex for an hour.
I used to be the senior Novell support engineer for Astra Pharmaceuticals, and when I was on call, guess what.... I stayed home.
Choosing a career where you will be on call means you are choosing to give up certain freedoms.
Here is another story:
link
quote:
Churches Installing Cell Phone Jammers
Sun Oct 17, 7:17 AM ET
By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer
MONTERREY, Mexico - It was the reporters who noticed first. Unable to call their editors while covering the weddings of the rich and famous, they asked the priest why their cell phones never worked at Sacred Heart. His reply: Israeli counterintelligence.
In four Monterrey churches, Israeli-made cell phone jammers the size of paperbacks have been tucked unobtrusively among paintings of the Madonna (news - web sites) and statues of the saints.
The jarring polychromatic din of ringing cell phones is increasingly being thwarted — from religious sanctuaries to India's parliament to Tokyo theaters and commuter trains — by devices originally developed to help security forces avert eavesdropping and thwart phone-triggered bombings.
The Indian parliament had jammers installed after politicians ignored requests to turn off their cell phones and legislative sessions were constantly interrupted.
In Italy, universities started using the blockers after discovering that cell phone-savvy teenagers were cheating on exams by sending text messages or taking pictures of tests.
The four Roman Catholic Churches in this northern city began using the devices, from Tel Aviv-based Netline Communications Technologies Ltd., after an insurance salesman imported them as a personal favor for a priest.
"There are still many people who don't understand that being at Mass is sharing a moment with God," said the Rev. Juan Jose Martinez, a spokesman for archdiocese. "Sadly, we had no other choice but to use these little gadgets."
Purchased for about $2,000 each, they can be turned on by remote control and emit low-level radio frequencies that thwart cell phone signals within a 100-foot radius.
Users get a "no service" or "signal not available" message on their cell phones.
Although Mexico has no law against the devices, the private use of cell phone blockers is illegal in the United States and most Western countries.
But the tide is turning.
Japan allows public places such as theaters and concert halls to install jammers, provided they obtain a government-issued license. And last week, France's industry minister approved a decision to let cinemas, concert halls and theaters install them — as long as provisions are in place so emergency calls can still be made.
Canada had considered allowing blocking in similar situations. But Industry Canada, which regulates the country's telecommunications, decided against it, saying the devices could infringe on personal freedom and affect public safety by crippling communication with law enforcement and security agencies.
Officials at Netline, which sold its first jammer in 1998, say they are selling thousands of jammers a year and have expanded their business throughout the world.
They're far from the only manufacturers. The devices are sold the world over, with dozens of suppliers selling them on the Internet.
Tokyo-based Medic Inc. sold thousands of its Wave Wall jammers before the government stepped in and regulated their use to venues with live performances. Commuters still buy mobile jammers to shut up chatty train passengers, even though their use is illegal.
In Scotland, businessman Ronnie McGuire, owner of Electron Electrical Engineering Services, imported Taiwan-made cell phone blockers and sold them to hotels, restaurants and bars until a local newspaper reported his activities, which were illegal in Britain.
McGuire has said he will still import the Taiwanese devices but sell them for export only to countries where they are allowed.
Loreen Haim, the director of marketing and sales for Netline, wouldn't say how many devices the company sells per year or what country buys the most.
In Mexico, the main clients have been banks looking to stop would-be robbers from communicating with their accomplices and the Mexican government, which is planning to use them at prisons, Haim said.
In Monterrey, the Sacred Heart church, a baroque temple favored by Mexico's elite for weddings, church officials acquired their blockers two years ago.
"Whenever there was a wedding, cell phones would ring every five minutes," said Bulmaro Carranza, a parish clerk. "It was a real problem because there were times when even the groom would forget to turn his cell phone off."
For months, the devices went unnoticed until reporters covering the weddings began complaining that their cell phones never worked.
Since word of the jammers went public, priests from around Mexico have been calling to find out how to get them, said Carranza.
At Sacred Heart, a device at the entrance to the church and another by the altar are turned on right before every Mass. Still, priests remind parishioners to turn off their phones before beginning the services, hoping good cell phone etiquette will eventually catch on.
The other Monterrey churches with the devices — The Rosario, San Juan Bosco and Our Lady Queen of the Angels — are also frequented by wealthier parishioners, Martinez said.
"For a lot of them, the cell phone is a necessity. But that shouldn't prevent them from having good manners and remembering that one must respect sacred places," Martinez said.
Margarita Escobedo, a Catholic who goes to church at least twice a week and volunteers at the San Genaro church, says she would welcome the jammers in her parish, where cell phones are becoming a nuisance.
"Those who bring cell phones to church are not committed to God," Escobedo said. "It's very distracting to be praying and suddenly hear birds chirping or techno music."
C'mon, FCC... get with the program!
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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-18-2004 02:24 AM
quote: Mike Blakesley
Doctors could use the old tried and true system: They tell the office or hospital they're going to the movies, then when they get to the theatre they tell the managment they are in auditorium so-and-so, and if a call comes in, the manager gets the doc out of the theatre and to the phone. We have done it this way at this theatre for oh about 25 years
I'm afraid that wouldn't be workable now in most US theatres, which are multiplexes for which it's almost impossible to get a telephone number which a human will answer. And even if you do get a number which a human is supposed to answer, there's often no answer because they're so understaffed that the person responsible for answering the phone is too busy or away from the phone. I can't be the only one who has spent 15 or 20 minutes a) on the phone listening to some stupid recording that only gives out a live person's number at the end of the announcements or doesn't give it out at all or b) lets the thing ring & ring, no one answers, & then it may roll over to the recorded announcement.
quote: Jim Ziegler
Some people behave badly.. But, that is not a reason to deny those who are following the rules.
But the ones followeing the rules are already being denied enjoying a theatrical experience by the people who are behaving badly. And they won't stop.
I hate to disagree with Jim Zeigler, but I also believe cell phones should be banned from or jammed in theatres, churches, many meetings, etc. Some people are too selfish to care, & others are joining them through habit & accommodation. If they were jammed, then a method (like Mike described) would become neccessary & workable again.
Most people just yank out the cell phone & if it's a call they don't want to miss, anwer it before the caller hangs up. In the rare occasions when they leave the theater, they're yakking into the phone on the way out of the row & up the aisle. Checking the phone is really just as bad: the person a couple of seats down or in the row in front has this sort of spastic fit when the phone rings, starts digging in coat, pants, belt, purse, change jingling, keys rattling, clothes going everywhere, arms & elbows into the air & the person next to them, jeking back & forth like they're being hit with cattle prods. The phone comes out, THE LIGHT COMES ON, you're watching them to see if they're going to answer it or when this distraction will end, then they either answer it, put it away, or get up. Then you try to go back to the show.
It's probably kind of moot, anyway. I don't think they're liable to ban or jam cell phones in theatres in the US. Changing the FCC rules would bring the cell phone companies & selfish phone users out loud & strong. If there's any change, it will likely be just to give jamming powers to law enforcement & emergency agencies in some anti-terrorism bomb-related legislation.
If the push for jamming ever got a start somewhere, it would likely be with the Broadway theaters or performing venues like symphony halls where the problem is massive & the patrons & operators all want it to stop. But in movie theaters, the prevailing industry laziness of dealing with things like getting staff to take calls & alert patrons would fall under the heading of Too Much Trouble, like better training for projectionists instituted & coordinated at corporate level. It's too much trouble & expense to put on that good a show, & cheaper & easier just to lower expectations.
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 10-19-2004 01:43 PM
quote: Scott Norwood
Jim--are you saying that cinemas should not be allowed to jam/block cellular telephone transmission and reception, or that you would not patronize an establishment that did block or jam those signals?
Blocking cellular signals is a federal crime in the United States. If it was not, I would not patronize any place that does. Honestly, so far, people here have advocated blocking them in any public place, and many want them banned in cars too.. So, I have to ask, just where do you think people should use thier cell phone?
quote: Gordon McLeod
If someone is on call they have chosen that as their lifestyle or occupation and as such are renumerated for that and as such have no right to be causing an annoyance to others. Also by
So Gordon, it would annoy you if I steped out of the theatre if my phone was on vibrate? By that logic, theatres should close the stands and shut down the restroom so NO ONE could leave and annoy anyone else...
Let me give you a personal example.. I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol. As such, I am on call 24/7 should my squadron be called becasue of any number of things - missing aircraft, natural disasters, missing persons, etc. I don't get paid a cent to do it, I am a volunteer. So, you are saying, that, by me volunteering my time, that I "have chosen that as their lifestyle or occupation and as such are renumerated for that and as such have no right to be causing an annoyance to others." That I should then be barred from theatres or restaurants?
quote: Mark J. Marshall
So you've permanently ended this problem?
I handle it as it arrises. Just as I handle talkers, crying babies, people with alcohol, etc...
quote: Mark J. Marshall
My brother is an EMT, and when he is on call, he doesn't go to the theater.
So? Odds are, if he has assigned on call days, he probably has a higher chance of getting called than an ob/gyn. But, that still doesn't answer the question of people who are on call 24/7.
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Mark J. Marshall
Film God
Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 10-19-2004 04:20 PM
quote: Jim Ziegler
I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol.
Thank you for your service! ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
quote: Jim Ziegler
Honestly, so far, people here have advocated blocking them in any public place, and many want them banned in cars too..
No, we're advocating banning them in places of business, which is more like private property AFAIK.
Let me ask you a question, Jim... What if I decide to wrap my theater in chicken wire and aluminum foil and effectively BLOCK all outside radio signals including those from cell phones and pagers from entering the building. Should I be allowed to do that? Or should that be illegal too? I ask because it's not illegal to do that, and a cell phone jammer accomplishes exactly the same thing. Most (except for the super high powered military ones) don't even penetrate glass let alone steel and concrete.
So if I can block the signals from entering the room, why is it a problem to install a small un-obtrusive device inside the room that does the same thing? I'd like to know if you think they should both be legal, or they should both be illegal.
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 10-20-2004 11:52 PM
quote: Mark J. Marshall
No, we're advocating banning them in places of business, which is more like private property AFAIK.
In the U.S. radio waves are considered public property, which is basis for FCC regulations. Any non-government action to jam anything, be it cell phones, radio stations, police radar, etc, is a violation of Federal law.
quote: Mark J. Marshall
What if I decide to wrap my theater in chicken wire and aluminum foil and effectively BLOCK all outside radio signals including those from cell phones and pagers from entering the building. Should I be allowed to do that? Or should that be illegal too? I ask because it's not illegal to do that, and a cell phone jammer accomplishes exactly the same thing.
There is a diffence between passive blocking - i.e. making the building so thick that radio signals can't escape, and active jamming, which would be to broadcast a signal designed to deny the public access to the public airwaves. One is regulated by building codes in your area, the other by the Federal Government.
My guess is that local authorities would probably not let you build a structure deliberatly designed to block radio signals, as such a building would pose life and safety issues due to the inability of police, fire and paramedic radios to penitrate the structure.
I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with any disruptions - be they people chatting, people on the phone, people smoking, drinking or kicking other chairs, is frequent auditorium checks by theatre ushers or security personnel, and and strong and consistant enforcement of a no-disruptions policy. After getting kicked out of a couple of movies - without a refund - for talkng on you cell phone, you will either get the point, or stop coming back. Either way, problem solved..
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Mark J. Marshall
Film God
Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 10-23-2004 10:35 AM
quote: Jim Ziegler
Any non-government action to jam anything, be it cell phones, radio stations, police radar, etc, is a violation of Federal law.
We got that, we're saying the law should be changed. Hence my quote: quote:
C'mon, FCC... get with the program!
Apparently, you're only half way paying attention to the discussion here so I see no point in me continuing.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 10-23-2004 02:21 PM
quote: Jim Ziegler
I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with any disruptions - be they people chatting, people on the phone, people smoking, drinking or kicking other chairs, is frequent auditorium checks by theatre ushers or security personnel, and and strong and consistant enforcement of a no-disruptions policy.
With respect, I don't think that is the easiest way. Enforcing good behaviour means a significant investment in staff time, doesn't always work and can be very disruptive to innocent third parties. What happens if an usher notices someone chatting away on their mobile 'phone in the middle of an block, and all the seats between the offender and the aisle are occupied? (S)he then has to barge past several other customers to get to the offender, who might not co-operate - or simply wait until the usher has gone and then make another call.
Enforcement also needs pretty good interpersonal skills and can be very stressful for the person doing the enforcing. When I was in the business I'd frequently be asked to help get rid of rowdy customers from the bar, or evict customers who wouldn't drink up and leave after drinking-up time. I was frequently ignored, abused and much else besides by idiots who simply refused to comply. I'm sure the same thing would happen if you had ushers patrolling the screens and asking people to switch their 'phones off.
The beauty of jamming mobile 'phone signals is that it is a technological solution which does not give the offender the option of refusing to comply. Their mobile simply will not work, so if they want to use it they have to leave your theatre. For the theatre it would probably be cheaper than providing the manpower needed to enforce a ban effectively, and front-of-house staff would be spared the stress.
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