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Author Topic: Being honest with your customers?
Andrew Thomas
Master Film Handler

Posts: 273
From: Pearland, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted 12-08-2012 07:54 PM      Profile for Andrew Thomas   Email Andrew Thomas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You won't receive them, but you could be signed up for one and not yet installed.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 12-08-2012 10:47 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Andrew Thomas
Mike,

I find it fascinating that when confronted with the untruthfulness of your defamatory charge of lying on the part of the other theater owner, you can't even man up and admit that what you said was false.

If you are currently 35mm it could easily cost you in the $100k range to move to digital and 3D.

What you should do in this situation is say "Oh, my mistake." and move along.

Andrew,

You are assuming that this operator has plenty of time to convert to digital which most people do not. Are you of the belief that a first run small town theater has more than a year left with film or years like Bob thinks? Most people would say the "film cliff" is fast approaching.

Plus he could have used technicolor 3d for significantly less like I did.

Manny,

You will not receive VPFs until you are using the equipment. The original theater in question is fundraising AFTER they received a bank loan and after they signed a VPF agreement and after the equipment has been installed and in use.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 12-08-2012 11:03 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You didn't really address Andrew's point, though. You are now suggesting that it's not advisable to attempt to save enough to do a 35mm -> digital 3D conversion where Andrew seemed to be saying that it's wrong to call the guy a liar for throwing out $100K as the amount for that conversion (although I don't know if the $100K amount came from the owner or not).

Although, you did say this is the same operator who did "mandatory donations" so I wouldn't be surprised if he would mislead.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-08-2012 11:54 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The guy in the original article said that it costs "over 100k" to install a 3D system, which implies that this is a cost over and above that of the original digital system.

Of course everyone's mileage will vary but I can attest that we did not spend 100k on our conversion even including the shipping, electrical, 3D glasses and dishwasher, and we even threw in a new screen at the same time. Some guys are just grandstanding.

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Andrew Thomas
Master Film Handler

Posts: 273
From: Pearland, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted 12-09-2012 12:51 AM      Profile for Andrew Thomas   Email Andrew Thomas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,

It is amusing that you are charging me with making assumptions when the only one here doing so is you in regards to the intent of that theater owner to deceive. I already pointed out how factually wrong you were about his claim of cost. Maybe he is delusional and thinks there will be plenty of 35mm prints to go around next year and the year after? I don't know that and it is not relevant or meaningful in the context of his/her quote about the cost of going 3D for their theater.

They indirectly note why Technicolor's system is of no value to them, it isn't supported by all the studios. So they directly reference the cost of converting their screen to digital for 3D at north of $100,000. Given what we know about the costs of projectors/servers/screens/3D units/sound processors/installation, it is absolutely within reason to believe it would be in that $100,000 range.

You are flatly wrong about the claims of that theater owner.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-09-2012 12:57 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for some time now.

How do you spell the "bitchy cat" sound?

Rrreow!

[Confused]

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 12-10-2012 09:52 AM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grandstanding, exaggerating, bending the facts, lying.....is there really that big of a difference.

Option 1: convert to digital with dolby 3d and upgrade sound and everything and you could get to $100k. I will give you that Andrew. I still say that $100k is still too high unless he has a huge auditorium. My highest bid for the same situation was less than $80,000. But, this digital system gives him no other value besides 3d? Would he not like almost every other theater out there and play 2d too? If he was playing no 3d movie, would he keep his film projector and use them vs the digital? Will he revert to his older-current sound system to play non-3d movies?

Option 2: Covert to digital with Real3d for significantly less upfront money. But, this digital system gives him no other value besides 3d? Would he not like almost every other theater out there and play 2d too? If he was playing no 3d movie, would he keep his film projector and use them vs the digital? Will he revert to his older-current sound system to play non-3d movies?
Which 3d system do you think this guy would take given his financial situation if he did convert? His words: "I am unable to financially justify the conversion to digital format. Investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into technology that will not increase ticket sales is questionable for a theater in a small town"

BTW, I have had a conversation with this owner. He was denied VPF b/c he played too many off the break movies. He says he is actively looking at other options. He is opening Les Miserables, a movie with a low print count I am told. So he must be a decent grossing theater.

Everyone can choose their own words to describe this situation. If lying is too harsh of a word I can agree with Mike B. with grandstanding.

We will see where this person is a year from now. Converted, discount with film, or closed.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 01-29-2013 01:11 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone have a problem with this statement from the following article? (sub-run theater currently playing Wreck-It-Ralph, Skyfall, Life of Pie, Twilight part 3-2)

"We try to keep fees down as much as possible, but you can only do so much," Loudin said. The cinema makes a little money from the box office, but the theater's main income comes from the concession stand, Loudin said.

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=146227#.UQgXkL88CSo

Holiday Cinemas seeks public's help in paying for digital upgrade
Originally published January 29, 2013

By Ike Wilson
News-Post Staff

At first glance, a public notice seeking financial assistance to support a movie theater's technical upgrade may seem strange, but think again.

Movie theaters across the country could close if they don't go digital by the end of the year, and buying digital equipment is an expense that many smaller cinemas cannot afford, said Mark Loudin, president of MDL Holiday Cinemas on Baughman's Lane in Frederick.

Traditional 35 mm film has been an industry standard since about 1910, but the movie industry is phasing out the film reels in favor of digital media, which means cinemas need new projection equipment, computers, a sound system and even a different screen, according to The Associated Press. The financial burden is huge for the small theater.

The cost of converting to digital averages about $70,000 per screen, according to the National Association of Theatre Owners, and about 60 percent of the nation's 5,750 theaters have switched to all-digital equipment.

MDL Entertainment Inc. recently bought one digital projector for $65,000, but the business cannot afford a second one, Loudin said.

Loudin posted this letter on the cinema's website, seeking the public's help:--

"Dear Friends of MDL Holiday Cinemas,

We are in need of charity for specific upgrades at the Holiday Cinemas. The theatre is on a low budget and has a major problem that is coming in the near future. The most specific problem is that we need to go digital by the end year of 2013 and if we do not go we will be forced to close as film companies are not using film for their movies any longer. I have purchased one digital projector which was $65,000 but we can not afford a second one. I am asking for the public's help in donating any monies you can to help us go digital and keep Holiday Cinemas up and running. All monies will be specifically deposited into one account and be used ONLY for digital upgrade, once we achieve in getting the digital equipment I will stop all donations as it is only for this purpose.

I would like to thank all of Frederick and surrounding counties that have been part of my family and coming to the Holiday Cinemas and supporting us, we thank you sincerely as we would not be in business if it wasn't for the customer base that we have.

Thanks again,

Mark Loudin, MDL Entertainment, Inc. president"

Since Loudin posted the letter about two weeks ago, the cinema has received about $700 in donations from the public. Social media will also be used to get the word out, and the theater's employees are letting customers know about the problem without pressuring them to donate money, Loudin said.

Many of the larger cinemas don't have to come up with the money to buy the new equipment, Loudin said, because they have arrangements with certain corporations that allow them to get the equipment at virtually no cost.

"It's a serious thing, and it's sad," Loudin said, that the smaller cinemas have to buy the new equipment.

"At the same time, I don't want to pressure people coming to the theater to give anything. If you want to help the theater, you can," he said.

Holiday Cinema is the lowest-priced theater in Frederick County as far as sub-run theaters, Loudin said. Sub-run theaters show movies two or three months after they are released.

Loudin has worked with MDL Holiday Cinemas for more than 21 years, and his family has owned the business for 11 years. Business is good, he said, and the theater has a loyal following. Fortunately for him, Frederick County officials' decision to eliminate the amusement tax will allow him to help pay for the first projector, Loudin said.

"We try to keep fees down as much as possible, but you can only do so much," Loudin said. The cinema makes a little money from the box office, but the theater's main income comes from the concession stand, Loudin said.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2013 02:54 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well to say he makes "a little" money from the boxoffice might be sort of misleading since he's probably not paying much more than 35% print rental, being a sub-run; but if his ticket sales aren't too great than "a little" might be a good description.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 01-29-2013 03:43 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He has already bought one digital projector himself. That with the idea of sub-run guarantees being pretty small ($250-$350) I am sure he is doing well enough to be paying in the 35%-40% range).

I talked to him by email. He is adding the sales tax of 6% and amusement tax of 5% into his cost. He also mentioned having to pay 50% for all weeks of Life of Pi as an example making this a 61% cost.

I am sure he said what he said due to the many years of theater operators misleading the public about our cut of the ticket price. Does not make it right IMHO.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2013 05:51 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Frese
He also mentioned having to pay 50% for all weeks of Life of Pi as an example making this a 61% cost.
I thought Life of Pi was overpriced considering it wasn't that big a hit. We paid a pretty high percentage for it too, even playing it several weeks off the break.

Quite a few films now are setting a high rate and sticking with it for the duration of the run but I thought sub-runs still got a lower rate...maybe they don't.

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Todd Leach
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: West Liberty, IA, USA
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 01-30-2013 10:44 AM      Profile for Todd Leach   Author's Homepage   Email Todd Leach   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My film costs have gone from 47% in 2011 to 52% in 2012 and I am sub run most the time and 1st run mostly in the summer. Film costs are creeping up. Looks like we will be paying for the digital transition after all.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 01-30-2013 06:03 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When did sub run films stop being flat? I was under the impression years ago when I worked at sub runs ($1 house) that they paid a flat fee for the films.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-30-2013 08:30 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe in order to get subrun flat rates you have to be subrun all the time? Todd says he's first-run in the summer. So the studios probably consider him to be first-run all the time.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 01-31-2013 02:59 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now that I think about it... Maybe it was flat vs. percentage whichever was greater?

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