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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: 70mm Print Runs
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 11-11-2002 07:41 PM
I have ZERO doubt that the Lawrence was a split surround SR mix for the restoration. I have no idea how well the split surrounds were used though. The requirement was for 6 SR cards. My source was none other than Robert Harris himself and personal knowlege of the set up.As to post Top Gun split surround mixes...I will disagree with you on that one...most were either split surround and used the stereo effect or were at least split surround safe. I was amazed at the little fanfare that was given to it though. Sometimes, one had to listen to the slate on the leaders of the film. For instance, HOFFA had no indication it was split surround...the TAP report didn't even mention it. The slate on the film clearly stated "Hoffa, 6-track split surround reel..." We dialed up 43 and all played well. Note, a non split surround film will have no HF response in the surrounds if played back on format 43. As to TEMPLE OF DOOM...that is only from personal recolection. Whereas SS 70mm prints were rare before Top Gun, it was hard to to convince the powers that be that we should equip our 70mm theatres for split surround (Acc rack with kits B and C/64). If Temple of Doom was a split surround film, it would have been used (by me if no one else) to convince my employer that we should upgrade. TOP GUN had advance notice of it's split surround track and that it was the favored format. So...find me the slate that proclaims that TOD was indeed split surround...until then I'll say it isn't. Steve ------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 11-12-2002 01:35 AM
Martin Brooks wrote:
quote:
My lists come from a variety of sources, including newspaper ads, Variety articles and listings, other journal articles and the lists that Dolby used to publish. Although Dolby's lists were frequently inaccurate, they tended to err by stating that something was in a better format than it was actually released in, not the other way around.
Martin,
I've always found information on the split surround version of "six-track Dolby Stereo" to be hard to come by because it was rarely, if ever, identified in newspaper ads. You almost had to have worked on a film, known someone who was involved with the production, or handled a print as a projectionist to know these things with certainty. The Dolby master list is a mess. I agree with you that their listings have had a tendency to err by way of noting a title was in a "better" format. However, with regard to 70mm (single- and split-surround), there are just as many, if not more titles that *did* play in 70mm somewhere that weren't even noted as such in their master list (Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade, Black Rain, Star Trek IV, etc.) than the suspect titles that may not have ever had any 70mm prints made available that were identified as "70mm" (Down And Out In Beverly Hills, Country, Buckaroo Banzai, etc.)
So, out of curiosity, did your Supergirl reference come from one of the Dolby listings or from another source?
quote:
Out of the above list, I only saw Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and the Hunt for Red October in 70mm and I don't remember them being in split surround, but I could easily be incorrect.
The prints of Indy III that played at the Chinese in Hollywood and the National in Westwood were definitely in the split surround format. There was one scene in particular in the movie where I could easily detect the separate left-right surround effects. Whereas in most of these (supposed) split surround presentations I often found it difficult to hear any distinct differences in the surround content (though this may be in part due to simply being absorbed into the movie and not being truly conscious of the sound). Also, a source at TAP informed me that only the few SR-encoded 70mm prints of Indy III were split surround. Not sure why it would need to be released like that, but that's what I was told.
quote:
I believe I saw Dick Tracy in CDS 70mm digital, so it's possible it did have split surround, at least in digital format.
I happened to save a copy of the "projectionist's notes" enclosure from the Dick Tracy prints, and it noted that the 70mm-mag prints had a "format 43" soundtrack (a processor setting for 70mm Dolby A-encoded soundtracks with split surround) and that theaters with that capability should play it back as such.
Steve Guttag wrote:
quote:
I have ZERO doubt that the Lawrence was a split surround SR mix for the restoration. I have no idea how well the split surrounds were used though. The requirement was for 6 SR cards. My source was none other than Robert Harris himself and personal knowledge of the set up.
Steve,
Funny, my source was also Mr. Harris. When preparing a 70mm article a couple years ago, I asked Harris about the sound mixes of the four 70mm restoration projects he was involved with (Lawrence Of Arabia, Spartacus, My Fair Lady, and Vertigo). His response: Lawrence and Spartacus in single surround, My Fair Lady and Vertigo in split surround.
quote:
As to post Top Gun split surround mixes...[CLIP] most were at least split surround safe
Can you elaborate on what exactly that means?
quote:
So...find me the slate that proclaims that [Temple Of Doom] was indeed split surround...until then I'll say it isn't.
I was in agreement with you that it was likely not a split surround release. I stated that the info came from one of the mixers who was (possibly incorrectly) recalling how the film was mixed. Note that I listed it in my previous post as a "possible split surround" release. I listed those few titles as possibles to see if that might prompt anyone here to dig into their notes or memories of dealing with them when they were released.
Steve (or any projectionists, for that matter),
Here is a listing of what should account for most of the 70mm releases after Top Gun (May 1986). Feel free to have a go at identifying which were in which audio format so we can try to get to the bottom of this single- vs. split-surround issue. (Feel free to distinguish "SR" and "A" titles as well, if you like; though I realize this is also tricky since some titles had print runs in both types.)
1986
Cobra
SpaceCamp
Big Trouble In Little China
Aliens
Howard The Duck
Manhunter
Tough Guys
The Color Of Money
The Mission
Nutcracker: The Motion Picture
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Little Shop Of Horrors
1987
Over The Top
Lethal Weapon
Beverly Hills Cop II
The Untouchables
Predator
The Witches Of Eastwick
Spaceballs
Adventures In Babysitting
Innerspace
The Lost Boys
Stakeout
Who's That Girl
Cry Freedom
The Running Man
The Last Emperor
3 Men And A Baby
Empire Of The Sun
Good Morning, Vietnam
1988
Shoot To Kill
Willow
The Presidio
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Die Hard
Tucker: The Man And His Dream
The Big Blue
The Last Temptation Of Christ
Pathfinder
Gorillas In The Mist
Alien Nation
Cocoon: The Return
Beaches
1989
Lawrence Of Arabia (new prints/re-release)
Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade
Dead Poets Society
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Batman
Lethal Weapon 2
The Abyss
Casualties Of War
In Country
Black Rain
West Side Story (new print[s]/re-release)
The Bear
The Ten Commandments (new print[s]/re-release)
The Little Mermaid
Valmont
Back To The Future Part II
Glory
Born On The Fourth Of July
Always
Tango & Cash
1990
Mountains Of The Moon
The Hunt For Red October
Back To The Future Part III
Total Recall
Dick Tracy
Gremlins 2: The New Batch
Days Of Thunder
Die Hard 2
Arachnophobia
Air America
Flatliners
The Two Jakes
The Sound Of Music (new prints/re-release)
Ben-Hur (new print[s]/re-release)
Fantasia (new prints/re-release)
Memphis Belle
Predator 2
Edward Scissorhands
The Rookie
Havana
The Sheltering Sky
Dances With Wolves
The Bonfire Of The Vanities
The Godfather Part III
1991
The Doors
Spartacus (new prints/re-release)
Backdraft
The Rocketeer
Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Point Break
Beauty And The Beast
For The Boys
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Hook
The Last Boy Scout
1992
Shining Through
Howards End
Lethal Weapon 3
Alien 3
Far And Away
Patriot Games
The Last Of The Mohicans
1492: Conquest Of Paradise
Hoffa
1993
Cliffhanger
Last Action Hero
In The Line Of Fire
Baraka
Gettysburg
Short Cuts
The Remains Of The Day
Geronimo: An American Legend
1994
Little Buddha
The Lion King
True Lies
My Fair Lady (new prints/re-release)
1995
The Wild Bunch (new prints/re-release)
1996
2001: A Space Odyssey (new print[s]/special screening[s])
Vertigo (new prints/re-release)
Hamlet
1997
Star Wars (re-release/special screening)
The Lost World (special screening)
Sleeping Beauty (new print/special screening[s])
Titanic
Tomorrow Never Dies (special screening[s])
1998
Armageddon
Godzilla (special screening[s])
1999
Tron (new print[s]/re-release)
2001
2001: A Space Odyssey (new prints/re-release)
Patton (new print/special screening[s])
2002
Play Time (new print[s]/re-release)
Lawrence Of Arabia (new prints/re-release)
Lord Jim (new print/special screening[s])
Hello, Dolly! (new print/special screening[s])
Ryan's Daughter (new print/special screening[s])
The Sound Of Music (new print/special screening[s])
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Lionel Fouillen
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 230
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 11-12-2002 06:50 AM
2 questions:Can 70mm split surround be processed by equipment other than Dolby? I've read ALL pages of theatre reviews on the Film-Tech "Pictures" section and I was struck to see that the majority of booths equipped with a CP200 didn't have the Accessory Unit. Isn't it required for processing 70mm split surround sound? Please correct me if I'm wrong. On formats 43 and 46, what is the highest usable low frequency for the sub-bass channels? I've heard of 200 Hz years ago, by the times of the CP200, and sub-bass sound could also be directed to full-range speakers #2 and #4 in cinemas having 5 full-range speakers behind the screen (with not so good result, of course)...
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