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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Clint Phare cue markers (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Clint Phare cue markers
Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 11-02-2002 07:51 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SMPTE eliminated the specifications for the anamorphic cue mark to discourage non-standard projectable image areas. A proper anamorphic aspect ratio aperture will show the nonanamorphic cue mark, so the anamorphic position was eliminated. (That doesn't mean the laboratories have stopped using their anamorphic cue punch and die.)

The upper half of a 1.85:1 frame is 0.223 inches high (0.446/2). Move up 0.141 inches from the centerline for the center of the cue and you are at 0.082 inches below the top edge of the projectable image area. That is the center of the 0.094 inch diameter cue mark. So the top edge of the cue mark is 0.082-(0.094/2)=0.035 inches below the top edge of the projectable image area.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-02-2002 10:27 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I could certainly do up some 16mm ones as well. I'll have to go measure out our 16mm die and see how deep the slot is and soforth. But I'll make you one for $20 or so, Scott. Asuming I don't need a different woodruff key cutter, that is. If I would, well, perhaps the two-piece variety would be the way to go.

It'll give me an excuse to make 2 more 16mm for our booths; originally I wasn't going to bother since we pretty much never use them...

--jhawk

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-02-2002 10:36 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, if you are going to be paying for all of this machine shop work, perhaps some others might be interested in getting some of your improved cue markers, and help get the cost per unit down. I might be one of the interested parties. What do you think?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-02-2002 10:53 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Joe, that was the original idea. I'm just going to do the shop work myself (which means the quantities can't get too high or I'll get bored).

I don't know quite how "improved" I'm going to go for...I guess it depends on whether someone hits on an improvement that's sufficiently easy to construct and not too time-consuming.

But certainly I can make a bunch of 35mm and 16mm dies and scribers, yup.

--jhawk

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-02-2002 11:14 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In small quantities, we have the Clint Phare scribers (the actual scriber).

I know we would be interested in 16 and 35mm cuers...and possibly some 70mm.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-02-2002 01:53 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'll have to go measure out our 16mm die and see how deep the slot is and soforth.

John, FWIW, the 16mm Clint Phare marker I've seen (painted red, instead of black) are the same size as the 35mm version, except for the position of the registration pin. The cue marker holes look to be in the same position, too, or very close. If you marked a 16mm print in the 4 holes as it was, the cue flashed on the screen every other frame, 4 times. I always marked two, then moved the film up one frame and made the other two, so they would be on consecutive frames.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-02-2002 02:11 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Tim, yes, ours is like that as well. What I was unsure about was the depth of the slot that needs to be cut from the center region of the die to the right-hand-side. This depth is a function of the horizontal position of the cues, and perhaps some arbitrary design decisions. I'll measure it later today...

I do have a question about the 16mm die though. It seems odd that the width of the slot does not bind the film like the 35mm version. Is there some intended purpose here? Such as marking cues on 35mm film that is going to be slit to 16mm? [That seems incredibly implausible.]

As for 70mm, I don't have one of those, and have no application. We'll see how it goes for 16mm and 35mm, and perhaps I might be willing to do some 70 if someone wants to give me specs...

--jhawk

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 11-02-2002 08:53 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For historical interest, the anamorphic cue mark position was 0.382 inches in from the edge of the film and 0.239 inches above the centerline of the image.

American Standard Z22.55-1947 clause 4.2 states: "The center of these holes is to be halfway between the top and second sprocket holes 0.281 inch from the right-hand edge of the film with heads up and emulsion toward the observer."

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-02-2002 09:14 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was the anamorphic cue the same diameter?

BTW, the keyslot is less deep on the 16mm cue marker (unsurprisingly),
so I shouldn't have a problem.

--jhawk

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-03-2002 09:33 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, John, It seems to me that if your project gets off the ground we'll have to change the code name of a cue mark from "Clint Phare" to "J-Hawk"!

If you are looking for enough takers to make your project worth while, I'd be willing to kick in a few $$. It's up to you to decide how many of them you need to make in order to defray the cost.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 11-03-2002 10:39 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did not mention the cue diameter because it is the same size, 0.094 inches. That's for both the anamorphic cue and the Z22.55 cue.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-03-2002 03:47 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 70mm cue marker is painted green

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 11-04-2002 11:14 AM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 70MM cue maker I have was made by MGM machine shop.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 11-04-2002 03:40 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a 16mm CF cue-r. If I use the 4 holes provided with this unit, I'fd have some ugly flasher cues that I detest. What I did is pick out the best-placed cue(s) and make sure to move the film down a frame before making the other cues. This way, it is seen on 4 consecutive frames, and does not jump around on the screen.

I need a 35mm base. I think that the scriber that I have would do nicely on 35. I dont need a huge cue...


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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-04-2002 05:16 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pass the Bruce!
I'm parched.
------------------
Better Projection Pays!


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