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Author Topic: Clint Phare cue markers
John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-08-2002 07:51 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, my woodruff cutter showed up yesterday; Monday's a holiday for my machine shop, but on Tuesday I expect to produce a prototype, and from there can make a bunch more.

If you'd like to order, please drop me an email to jhawk@mit.edu and let me know how many 16mm, 35mm, and 70mm dies you would like, and how many scribers you would like. It'll be first-come first-served (if you commented previous to this message in the thread, you can keep your place), and if I get too many responses I'll have to draw a line.

I don't know that I will be making any 70mm, but I'll certainly consider it.

--jhawk


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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-08-2002 08:48 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,
Have you figured out the prices of a 35mm Die and scriber yet?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-08-2002 08:58 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Please post an approximate cost. Also, will the scribers be adjustable so they can line up directly with any existing marks?

I am most certainly interested.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-08-2002 09:27 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Approximate cost is $20 for one die and one scriber (but it might vary depending on quantity ,etc.).

At the moment I'm only planning to make fixed-position dies, since that's what I have a clear design for and know how to produce. Though I suppose on further reflection, making adjustable positions wouldn't be too terrible, though it seems like the alignment might be rough.

I think, initially, I'm going to make fixed position dies, and then I might experiment with adjustable ones if I'm still feeling motivated.

Some design thoughts: I guess you'd want to adjust both the horizontal and vertical positions, rather than just one...that complicates doing it a fashion that would be truly square. As I see it, there are 2 options:

1. The alignment holes are in a seperate piece in the top of the die, and that piece bolts down to some captive nuts in the base. Loosen both bolts, adjust the exact position of the die, and then lock it down. The problem with this is it's hard to guarantee that you're positioned squarely (i.e. that the mark will be in the same place in all 4 frames).

2. There are two pieces, stacked, on top of the die base. The top piece has slotted holes such that it can only move (say) in the x direction. The lower (middle) piece has slotted holes such that it can only move in the y direction. The top piece bolts to the middle piece, and the middle piece to the base.

Just to confirm, Brad, the application is so that you can go over dark cues that are too hard to see, yes? Have you tried scribing them freehand, without a die? I haven't tried that, but it seems worth investigating...

--jhawk


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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-08-2002 09:41 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The application is not only to go over dark cues if absolutely necessary (generally this is not needed as most printed cues have a white halo around them), but also so any existing cues that may have been scribed elsewhere can be matched up if new ones must be added.

Perhaps you could design it so that it is on a track that could slide lengthwise on the film, to permit vertical positioning? Then there could be a few different holes to use that vary in horizontal position. I can get you some film with printed cues if that would be of any assistance.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-08-2002 10:13 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Err, so this would be for a case where, say, the motor cue is present and the changeover cue is not, because the last foot of film has been lopped off. So you want to add a new changeover cue and want it to be in the same position as the motor cue? [wow, that sounds like a specialized application ]

OK, sure, you can have two-piece design with slots in the y direction (or a track if you want to go to way more effort...), and no freedom of movement in the x direction except for having more than one hole. It doesn't seem like you could accomodate more than 3 or 4 horizontal positions, unless you were willing to accept not replicating them across all 4 frames and having to re-register the film in the die 4 times.

I'm surprised that you think there are a small number of horizontal positions, though. Anyhow, you could measure them yourself with a caliper. Sure, if you want to mail them to me that would be fine, though my receipt of your film does not guarantee that I'll make the custom part .

--jhawk

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-08-2002 11:12 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Just let me know if you need them. As for the specific dimensions of the cues, I have no idea how much variance there really is. All I know is that I see cues all over the place and the Cline Phare marker I have doesn't even come remotely close to where the lab cues are.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-11-2002 11:21 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Current sketch:

--jhawk

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-11-2002 11:43 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't see them in the drawing, but I assume there will be a registration pin or two. Am I correct?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-11-2002 11:45 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, that's the little yellow circle.
In actuality, I might end up with two registration pins, since the slot is more like 38mm instead of 35mm, because of tooling issues. "We'll see how it works on the prototype."

--jhawk

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-11-2002 11:51 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oops, I could barely see it on my monitor. Looks good.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 11-12-2002 01:00 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll be interested in one for 35mm.
Thanks.

I have a 16mm "Q" maker from the 1950's TV era. You insert the film where you want the Q to appear, close the lid, turn the knob, and there you go. Nice quality.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-14-2002 07:00 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Status update: Finished up the prototype 35mm die on Wednesday, did a scriber today. I'll try to post some pictures when I and a digital camera are in the same place at once with working batteries...

It definitely turned out that having the slot 3mm wider made registration annoying, so my version has two registration pins, one at the top and one at the bottom.

--jhawk


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-15-2002 10:28 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here we go.

--jhawk


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-15-2002 10:39 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would there be any cost advantage to making the die out of plastic (e.g., DELRIN, NYLON, polypropylene, polyester), which might be easier to machine/mold in quantity? You want to be sure there aren't any burrs or sharp edges on the metal die that might scratch the print.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: here Kodak Website

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