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Topic: Do You Think the Moon Landing was a Hoax?

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-07-2003 05:09 PM

Ian needs a new pic...already! [Big Grin]

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-07-2003 08:17 PM

"..I don't think any astronauts (regardless of nationality) were deliberately put at undue risk for the sake of "winning"...."

Why would you assume that John? You think the space race was not a big propaganda bonus for the winner?

Whether it is ego on behalf of the Russians or just plain stupidity, the fact is that their stuff is clunky and at best unreliable. It always has been and continues to be so. Submarines, nuke ractors, space stations, rockets. Their stuff has a history of the "quick and dirty" approach. They take a bunch of risky chances and once in a while it works. Look what happens when it doesn't. People die in the Kursk, people die at Chernobyl. They have fires on their space station that cannot be reasonably controlled because instead of doing a proper engineering job and putting cables in conduits, they lay them in hatch ways so that hatch can't close. (nuts) People die in space capsules, because it was a "space race". We'll never know how many. They don't take near the precautions that the US does, but I guess they win once in a while. Think it's worth it?

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-07-2003 09:30 PM

Pioneers always take risks. The people who settled the lands you now live on also took risks to get there (remember "How The West Was Won"?).
Astronauts and Cosmonauts died in the space programs. American spacecraft, nuclear reactors and submarines also had accidents.
Yuri Gagarin was a test pilot. Risk was part of his job description. He died in a plane crash in 1968, 34 years old.
Everyone knows it was basically just a frenetic race who would get into space first. The Russians won. You should acknowledge the ingenuity and courage of the people involved.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-07-2003 11:29 PM

But they didn't win. We beat them to the moon.
Also, if you're dead it doesn't count if you're the first one to die there. The trick is to live. I guess it's because we cherish life more than most cultures.
I guess we could have shoved a sky rocket up some guys ass and shot him off and made him the first guy "up there" but what glory is there in that? Or if he didn't make it we could have got the next guy in line and shoved one up his ass. And on and on until we finaly got one into orbit. Sound absurd? You're catching on

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-07-2003 11:54 PM

While they were the 1st with the "Sputik", I certainly don't think they "won".

Their careless disregard for both human and animal life still makes me want to barf.

Mike, my great personal friend, you are full of crap! [Big Grin]

>>> Phil

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-08-2003 01:39 AM

All of you have overlooked one important point of proof of the landings...I'm really surprised Greg doesn't know, or forgot about this is that most of the landing sites have been photographed much later on by satellites. I remember seeing a couple of the pics of one the landing sites in which the tracks of the lunar rover were clearly visible. I think Hubble may have also observed one of the sites.

NASA has had thousands of impressive spinoffs that we all take for granted in everyday life today. What I appreciate is the many thousands of lives saved by some of these spinoffs.
Mark @ CLACO

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 10-08-2003 01:48 AM

quote:
most of the landing sites have been photographed much later on by satellites

Didn't you know, those were faked too.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-08-2003 05:43 AM

quote:
But they didn't win. We beat them to the moon.

See? That`s exactly what I meant.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-08-2003 06:31 AM

Brave astronauts and cosmonauts have lost their lives, not because of callous disregard for them, but because of poor schedule-driven decision making and politically-driven cost cutting. The risks of space travel are always high, but these accidents could have been prevented if good engineering judgement prevailed.

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-08-2003 08:54 AM

The United States put the first humans on the moon, but the Soviets beat us by sending unmanned craft to the moon. They sent back the first photos of the side of the moon unseen by us earthbound people. They landed the first craft on the moon. They also sent the first woman into space decades before us.

I do believe our explorers were treated with more care than the Soviets. Our chimp, Ham, fared better than Laika (although he didn't orbit). When the Soviets wanted to match our Apollo program by sending three Cosmonauts into space, they took (what must have previously been considered necessary) equipment out of their two-person capsule to cram a third person. Seems a little makeshift.

Speaking of makeshift, in the documentary "The Russian Right Stuff" the proposed Soviet lunar lander was shown. I don't know if was a finished version or not, but I shuddered even looking at it. Andy Griffith's cement-mixer spacecraft from "Salvage" seemed safer!

Alien Autopsy---now THAT was REAL! [Wink]

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-08-2003 09:38 AM

Each year our astronomy club hosts a booth/display at the local county fair. One year I had a young man walk up and ask if I knew about the radiation belt around the Earth. I guess I looked rather puzzled, because he went on to explain that there was a layer of radiation around the Earth which was lethal to any animal life. He further explained that his dad was in the air force and "they" knew all about it. I finally said something like "so it's impossible to go to the moon?" His eyes lit up and he was obviously feeling very clever. "You should read up on it" he said and walked off. I guess because of the rolling of my eyes.
True story

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 10-08-2003 11:17 AM

quote:
Brave astronauts and cosmonauts have lost their lives, not because of callous disregard for them, but because of poor schedule-driven decision making and politically-driven cost cutting. The risks of space travel are always high, but these accidents could have been prevented if good engineering judgement prevailed.

There's a great series of books by Edward R. Tufte on presenting information visually. In his book, "Visual Explanations," Tufte devotes 15 pages to the Challenger disaster and how poor presentation of data by the engineers who tried to stop the launch led to the decision to launch.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-08-2003 12:41 PM

The radiation belt is true. It's called the Van Allen Belt.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-08-2003 01:10 PM

I first learned about cosmic radiation [Eek!]

from a Disney educational short.

Take a look at the following:

quote:
The Earth actually has two radiation belts of different origins. The inner belt , the one discovered by Van Allen's Geiger counter, occupies a compact region above the equator (see drawing, which also includes the trajectories of two space probes) and is a by-product of cosmic radiation. It is populated by protons of energies in the 10-100 Mev range, which readily penetrate spacecraft and which can, on prolonged exposure, damage instruments and be a hazard to astronauts. Both manned and unmanned spaceflights tend to stay out of this region

Link

Notice the phrases: "prolonged exposure" and "tend to stay out."

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-08-2003 01:15 PM

quote:
...poor presentation of data by the engineers who tried to stop the launch led to the decision to launch

Engineers are not always the most articulate, especially when they need to be understood by non-technical people who often make the final decisions. [Frown]

"We need launch today for the program to stay on schedule" is more understandable than "the measured durometer of the O-rings increases significantly below 0 Celsius".

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