Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Get out and VOTE tomorrow!!

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Topic: Get out and VOTE tomorrow!!

Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-02-2004 04:34 PM

I tend to make long posts, so please, either bear with me or just shoot me and let me die in peace! [Eek!]

quote: Stephen Furley
Dave, it seems very unlike anything we have here, except maybe the system which one of the political parties used to select their leader at one time; I think that system has now been changed.

I apologize. I incorrectly stated that our system is based on the english parlimentary system. I should have instead stated that at the creation of our governmental system, our founding fathers, who were in fact english, drew from the only form of government that they really knew. The original Articles of Confederation was a complete reversal of Royal Rule, and instead we got mob rule. As a compromise, the REPUBLIC was created, with a system that was reminiscent of the home land, yet improved to disallow rule by any one body or person. It was quite ingenious and has ruled this land for 220+ years.

On to new business, there is much that is bieng said here about votes becoming meaningless or not counting.

I will point out a few qoutes and then point out where the argument is lost...

quote: Jeremy Fuentes
But my issue with it is, I dont want to vote on behalf of my state. I want to vote on my own behalf. If this is the case, then the saying, "Every vote counts" would actually mean something.

However you are voting on behalf of your state. The only way to not is to just not vote. This is our system, and if you disagree with it then that is fine, however I would suggest reading up on our founding fathers and why they put this sytem in place. Voting on behalf of your state is voting on your own behalf because you live in your state. If you keep voting for the loser, then either move to a state that represents your values or stay where you are and become active in trying to change how your state votes. Represent!

quote: Michael Cunningham
If 51% of the people in California vote Republican and 49% vote Democrat, the Republican gets all 55 electoral votes. This effectively means that nearly half of the population has had their vote rendered meaningless.

Casting your vote for the loser does not render your vote meaningless. All votes are meaningful. When anyone believes thier vote may be meaningless, they tend to not vote. How many meaningless votes have never been cast? Just becuase your guy loses does not make your vote meaningless. The meaningless vote is the one not cast. One vote gave Adolf Hitler control of the Nazi Party, imagine the shagrin on those that abdicated thier vote because it was meaningless.

quote: Michael Cunningham
Granted, this has only happened very rarely (twice if I remember correctly) so its not that big an issue, but it does seem to defy common sense.

This pertains to the electoral college granting a winner not based on popular vote not bieng common sense. Common sense is also equatable to mob rule. Instead what is required here is greater sense of purpose. The electoral college was created to prevent popular votes from large metro areas casting the president. This is the basis of our republic. I am actually quite surprised that we have not had more irregularities in our history.

quote: Michael Cunningham
There are issues with it that don't seem to make sense, but it'll work well enough until something better is proposed.

We should not be looking for something better. It works. The way the states chooses its electoral votes is entirely up to the states, NOT the us government. If you want to change how your state divies them up, then do something about it. Colorado has a citizens initiative on the ballot right now.

The system works, however the individual states need to make thier own determination on how it works for them best.

The only reason that it is said to be broken is because it produced just the irregularities that the founding fathers had foreseen in the first place. Broken? It did what it was supposed to do. What is broken is having election law ripped to shreds by lawyers trying to litigate victories post election.

I will trust the creators of our constitution to have created a great document that is the framework of our government, our country, our way of life. There are parts of it that have needed to be changed, hence the ability to ammend it as needs be, as times prove different social trends.

However, proper representations is not a social trend. Slavery was a social trend. Prohibition was a social trend. Giving voting rights to women was a social trend. Getting the representation that we should get is not a trend, it is necessity. I cannot see even wanting to change the system as it is.

I could see the states all adopting a district by district electoral policy, house and senate. That would be quite fair, and would pull every single district into play, and then really the elections would be fun to watch. No one would be ignored.

But that cannot be done at the federal level, unless the constitution were ammended that way. It would take a preponderance of states to do it, but would take away states rights, and would be struck down by the supreme court, maybe.

AUGH....

so there.. i love the college, it is what it is.. it works, but then again I am a student of constitutional law so I tend to be a bit more defensive of it.... [evil]

Ok i did just get back from voting.. i voted for the winner in all counts.. lets hope he remembers that bribe he promised me..

ciao

dave